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How has God shown you He loves you?

Spiderman

Veteran Member
So I'd like to be able to show the sick suffering poor tortured souls that God loves them. The first obstacle is the fact that God refuses to speak up to them. God hides himself. Would a God who loves people hide himself from them and refuse to speak up and leave people tortured and confused?

The world is tortured, sick, and confused. It would be nice if there was some evidence to leave people that they can turn to God and God will protect, provide, and be faithful to his word. I pray to God unceasingly for guidance and am left sick and confused. Reading the Bible just causes more confusion and anger and makes me want to puke!

How hard is it for God to simply demonstrate that his word is true and that he cares about people and will enlighten them, guide them, heal their wounds? Why is it that one person seeks the truth and winds up Catholic, another person seeks the truth and winds up a Jehovah's witness, another person seeks the truth and winds up Eastern Orthodox, or some other denomination? People are reading the same book and praying to the same God, while winding up with opposite beliefs.

I can't tell you how many people have read the Bible and come to believe the Catholic church is the whore of Babylon... others read the same book and give a Biblical defense of why the Catholic church is the church that Christ founded.

At this time, how does a person know who to listen to? I go to God , and he seems to tell me that the Holy Spirit guides the church councils and established the church as the authority to settle disputes about faith and morals. Yet so many Bible Christians tell me the church is evil, Pagan, and the religion of Satan and the Antichrist.

In the end, I'm just going to have to follow my conscience, because God isn't giving clear answers.

All this time I could be following the whore of Babylon, the religion of Satan.

Which would mean the very Bible these people cherish, they got from the whore of Babylon, because for quite a few centuries there were no Protestant churches.

If God let the world be deceived by this satanic whore, how am I supposed to place my trust in such a God? He failed to guide the church, and the Bible contradicts itself.

Who does a person listen to?

My heart tells me to listen to the church , because Christ said Upon This Rock I build my church and the gates of Hell shall not Prevail against it.

There is an unbreakable chain of popes that dates back to the first century. Protestantism began in the 16th century. How am I supposed to believe the Protestant faith is the true faith when God waited so many centuries to establish a Protestant church?

If God wants me to be a Protestant, then which of the thousands of denominations doesn't preach error?

How am I supposed to tell anybody that God loves them, when God does such a pitiful job of shepherding his flock? Turn to God for answers and get silence. How has this God shown himself to be trustworthy?

How has God shown you he loves you?

If you were going to tell a chronically sick tortured soul that God loves them, what would you provide them as evidence for this claim? All the evidence suggests otherwise.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
How has God shown you he loves you?

If you were going to tell a chronically sick tortured soul that God loves them, what would you provide them as evidence for this claim? All the evidence suggests otherwise.
To me, any act of true love from one person to another is an example of God's love. The more we love another, the more God's love manifests. I can't say it any better than St. Teresa although I might use the word "God" rather than "Christ":

Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which he blesses all the world.
 

Phantasman

Well-Known Member
So I'd like to be able to show the sick suffering poor tortured souls that God loves them. The first obstacle is the fact that God refuses to speak up to them. God hides himself. Would a God who loves people hide himself from them and refuse to speak up and leave people tortured and confused?

The world is tortured, sick, and confused. It would be nice if there was some evidence to leave people that they can turn to God and God will protect, provide, and be faithful to his word. I pray to God unceasingly for guidance and am left sick and confused. Reading the Bible just causes more confusion and anger and makes me want to puke!

How hard is it for God to simply demonstrate that his word is true and that he cares about people and will enlighten them, guide them, heal their wounds? Why is it that one person seeks the truth and winds up Catholic, another person seeks the truth and winds up a Jehovah's witness, another person seeks the truth and winds up Eastern Orthodox, or some other denomination? People are reading the same book and praying to the same God, while winding up with opposite beliefs.

I can't tell you how many people have read the Bible and come to believe the Catholic church is the whore of Babylon... others read the same book and give a Biblical defense of why the Catholic church is the church that Christ founded.

At this time, how does a person know who to listen to? I go to God , and he seems to tell me that the Holy Spirit guides the church councils and established the church as the authority to settle disputes about faith and morals. Yet so many Bible Christians tell me the church is evil, Pagan, and the religion of Satan and the Antichrist.

In the end, I'm just going to have to follow my conscience, because God isn't giving clear answers.

All this time I could be following the whore of Babylon, the religion of Satan.

Which would mean the very Bible these people cherish, they got from the whore of Babylon, because for quite a few centuries there were no Protestant churches.

If God let the world be deceived by this satanic whore, how am I supposed to place my trust in such a God? He failed to guide the church, and the Bible contradicts itself.

Who does a person listen to?

My heart tells me to listen to the church , because Christ said Upon This Rock I build my church and the gates of Hell shall not Prevail against it.

There is an unbreakable chain of popes that dates back to the first century. Protestantism began in the 16th century. How am I supposed to believe the Protestant faith is the true faith when God waited so many centuries to establish a Protestant church?

If God wants me to be a Protestant, then which of the thousands of denominations doesn't preach error?

How am I supposed to tell anybody that God loves them, when God does such a pitiful job of shepherding his flock? Turn to God for answers and get silence. How has this God shown himself to be trustworthy?

How has God shown you he loves you?

If you were going to tell a chronically sick tortured soul that God loves them, what would you provide them as evidence for this claim? All the evidence suggests otherwise.
Lots to digest there.

For me, the problem IS the Bible. Quit following men. Seek the Spirit of truth. The Jews followed (their) books and died. The truth is not a book. The truth is revealed to the seeker who seeks the truth.

When you experience the freedom truth provides, it grows daily, and your mind understands it all. Forget churches and religions, because they are of man. Find what truly saves you from the despair and fears of this mistake of a world.

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."- Thomas

Don't be led by others. When the Spirit makes you a son, you will no longer be in the poverty you speak of.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I don't believe there is God, but I had this effort with it.

Perhaps there are blind pursuits, errors of the heart that make the path broad to destruction.

And perhaps the narrow path is total honesty with God, and total obedience and total submission to no other but God.

So you must take God at His word.

But The Bible is so highly contextual, and so filled with things beyond reason, and rationale, that it's hard to find where God is addressing me in particular.

If you read it out of context, which is so easily done, you end up with something that can't be summated to the whole.

So you can't cherry pick it, you have to take it historically, literally, and in context of the age and time.

My frustrated conclusion is that on the whole it is inconsistent, lacking clarity, and moral right; such as a brother marrying a brothers wife to continue a seed because the brother died.

So in summation for a religion I desire a pure source of morality that is understandable, and clear, and 100% righteous in motive, and content.

That's the only way I'll ever submit to an religious authority.

You have to see it for yourself.

I decided to rely on the virtues for submission. And I found 100 qualities of character that match the definition of virtue.

I'll admit the letters of Paul are attractive in saying belief is counted for faith, and to your faith, apply with all due diligence virtue.

The only effective way to make something apart of your life, is to believe it, and in believing you have faith, and to your faith apply diligence to virtue. Virtue being the attributes of God.

So I learned that much from Paul. To meditate on whatsoever is pure, just, and holy, and to give thyself wholly unto them.

For faith you need the purest source, and to know your rightful place with that source.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
To me, any act of true love from one person to another is an example of God's love. The more we love another, the more God's love manifests. I can't say it any better than St. Teresa although I might use the word "God" rather than "Christ":

Christ has no body but yours,
No hands, no feet on earth but yours,
Yours are the eyes with which he looks
Compassion on this world,
Yours are the feet with which he walks to do good,
Yours are the hands, with which he blesses all the world.

Does the situation hold true with regards to hate? If one attributes a human's love with a god's love, then one should be willing to equate a human's hate with a god's hate. If not, why not?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
To me, any act of true love from one person to another is an example of God's love. The more we love another, the more God's love manifests.

Excellent reply! Your statement agrees with Jesus’ statement, @ John 13:34-35. Here, he says this ‘a-ga-pe’ love would ID his genuine followers from the counterfeit ones.....it transcends all man-made boundaries!

Our actions speak louder than our beliefs. Or at least should.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Does the situation hold true with regards to hate? If one attributes a human's love with a god's love, then one should be willing to equate a human's hate with a god's hate. If not, why not?
Yes, in hating the right things, such as murder and theft.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Yes, in hating the right things, such as murder and theft.

You still need to justify why you are separating those things you personally see as the "right" things from those you see as the "wrong" things.
After all, the bible supports murder, genocide, slavery, misogyny, infanticide, etc.

If actions of humans are reflective of a god, then how do you define those actions which are and which are not reflective of said god? I don't think you can pick and choose at will.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So I'd like to be able to show the sick suffering poor tortured souls that God loves them. The first obstacle is the fact that God refuses to speak up to them. God hides himself. Would a God who loves people hide himself from them and refuse to speak up and leave people tortured and confused?
So as to your first paragraph, the Lord has given the wealthy the ability and capacity to take the extreme poor out of poverty. He loves us so he wants us to be good on our own. We can take the extreme poor out of poverty without disrupting human survival. We have an opportunity to help the world develop like it needs to be, and sometimes hearing voices just get in the way.

Two reasons I can think of for sickness: we show love to those people developing love and we develop technology to treat them.

Does that help, and would you like me to address your next paragraph?
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
So I'd like to be able to show the sick suffering poor tortured souls that God loves them. The first obstacle is the fact that God refuses to speak up to them. God hides himself. Would a God who loves people hide himself from them and refuse to speak up and leave people tortured and confused?

The world is tortured, sick, and confused. It would be nice if there was some evidence to leave people that they can turn to God and God will protect, provide, and be faithful to his word. I pray to God unceasingly for guidance and am left sick and confused. Reading the Bible just causes more confusion and anger and makes me want to puke!

How hard is it for God to simply demonstrate that his word is true and that he cares about people and will enlighten them, guide them, heal their wounds? Why is it that one person seeks the truth and winds up Catholic, another person seeks the truth and winds up a Jehovah's witness, another person seeks the truth and winds up Eastern Orthodox, or some other denomination? People are reading the same book and praying to the same God, while winding up with opposite beliefs.

I can't tell you how many people have read the Bible and come to believe the Catholic church is the whore of Babylon... others read the same book and give a Biblical defense of why the Catholic church is the church that Christ founded.

At this time, how does a person know who to listen to? I go to God , and he seems to tell me that the Holy Spirit guides the church councils and established the church as the authority to settle disputes about faith and morals. Yet so many Bible Christians tell me the church is evil, Pagan, and the religion of Satan and the Antichrist.

In the end, I'm just going to have to follow my conscience, because God isn't giving clear answers.

All this time I could be following the whore of Babylon, the religion of Satan.

Which would mean the very Bible these people cherish, they got from the whore of Babylon, because for quite a few centuries there were no Protestant churches.

If God let the world be deceived by this satanic whore, how am I supposed to place my trust in such a God? He failed to guide the church, and the Bible contradicts itself.

Who does a person listen to?

My heart tells me to listen to the church , because Christ said Upon This Rock I build my church and the gates of Hell shall not Prevail against it.

There is an unbreakable chain of popes that dates back to the first century. Protestantism began in the 16th century. How am I supposed to believe the Protestant faith is the true faith when God waited so many centuries to establish a Protestant church?

If God wants me to be a Protestant, then which of the thousands of denominations doesn't preach error?

How am I supposed to tell anybody that God loves them, when God does such a pitiful job of shepherding his flock? Turn to God for answers and get silence. How has this God shown himself to be trustworthy?

How has God shown you he loves you?

If you were going to tell a chronically sick tortured soul that God loves them, what would you provide them as evidence for this claim? All the evidence suggests otherwise.
Nice diatribe. I left it after the first sentence.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have been thinking about the question. How has God shown you He loves you? I don't know, but what I know is that I have shown God that I love God and I think that love is making me a better person. And so being better in all ways is how I am being shown that I am loved.

 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The truth is not a book. The truth is revealed to the seeker who seeks the truth.
Amen.
Does the situation hold true with regards to hate? If one attributes a human's love with a god's love, then one should be willing to equate a human's hate with a god's hate. If not, why not?
There are different frames of reference I can use.

One is that love in it's highest aspect is not an emotion whereas hate is an emotion. From this perspective, love is to manifest that the lover and the one loved are not two but one. And this is the level of love I meant.

From another perspective, love and hate are not opposites but deep connection between two people. The opposite here would be connection versus indifference (no connection). A story staple is where two people hate or dislike each other and then fall in love. In the divine level, there are equally stories about people who have hated God and then become lovers of God. So here, the emotions of love and hate are like clothing over the deeper connection which is higher love.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Then they are not reading the Old Testament, are they?
I’m going to start a thread — hopefully soon — on the ‘OT’ God being sadistic and vengeful, as many accuse, verses what the Hebrew Scriptures actually portray.

It’s interesting how writers of the Greek Scriptures, being very familiar with the OT manuscripts, didn’t agree...rather, they said the opposite, that Jehovah was / is a God of Love (Ex.: 1 John 4:8) ; and millions of people since, who’ve studied the Scriptures — deep thinkers like Newton, Boyle, Kepler, etc. — felt the same!

Were they liars?

EDIT: it’s going to have to be several threads, each dealing with one topic. I’ll start with the misogyny accusation.
 
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Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Amen.

There are different frames of reference I can use.

One is that love in it's highest aspect is not an emotion whereas hate is an emotion. From this perspective, love is to manifest that the lover and the one loved are not two but one. And this is the level of love I meant.

From another perspective, love and hate are not opposites but deep connection between two people. The opposite here would be connection versus indifference (no connection). A story staple is where two people hate or dislike each other and then fall in love. In the divine level, there are equally stories about people who have hated God and then become lovers of God. So here, the emotions of love and hate are like clothing over the deeper connection which is higher love.

Is all love between humans love in it's highest aspect? What does "love in it's highest aspect" mean as opposed to any other love? If all love between humans is not love in it's highest aspect, does this not invalidate your original premise? Can you demonstrate in a concrete manner that love is anything but a human emotion?

Indifference does not necessarily equal no connection. I have a connection to my past employer. But I am indifferent to them.

If hate is not the opposite of love, what is the opposite of love? What is the opposite of love? Support your hypotheses, rather than simply making statements
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
I’m going to start a thread — hopefully soon — on the ‘OT’ God being sadistic and vengeful, as many accuse, verses what the Hebrew Scriptures actually portray.

It’s interesting how writers of the Greek Scriptures, being very familiar with the OT manuscripts, didn’t agree...rather, they said the opposite, that Jehovah was / is a God of Love (Ex.: 1John 4:8) ; and millions of people since, who’ve studied the Scriptures — deep thinkers like Newton, Boyle, Kepler, etc. — felt the same!

Were they liars?

EDIT: it’s going to have to be several threads, each dealing with one topic. I’ll start with the misogyny accusation.

Those will be very active and volatile threads. I know for a fact that in the English versions of the OT, god directly commands genocide, infanticide, etc. And he spells out precisely where to get your slaves from, how to treat them, and that they are personal property and can be passed down to your heirs. It will be interesting to see someone who knows ancient Hebrew to try and refute this. Of course, it should be noted that this has been attempted many times before on this site to no avail.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is all love between humans love in it's highest aspect? What does "love in it's highest aspect" mean as opposed to any other love? If all love between humans is not love in it's highest aspect, does this not invalidate your original premise? Can you demonstrate in a concrete manner that love is anything but a human emotion?

Indifference does not necessarily equal no connection. I have a connection to my past employer. But I am indifferent to them.

If hate is not the opposite of love, what is the opposite of love? What is the opposite of love? Support your hypotheses, rather than simply making statements
He already said. The opposite of love is indifference. It means that I don't care about you and what happens to you.
 
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