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Featured How God's Omniscience Robs Him From Having A Free Will

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Skwim, Jun 12, 2019.

  1. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Consider: free will is the ability to have done differently. In essence it means that at the point of doing A or B one has the ability to choose to do one rather than the other.

    Consider: omniscience is commonly defined as knowing everything. And this means e v e r y t h i n g, NO exceptions. Moreover, this would include all those things god does.

    So, If God foreknows the occurrence of some event E, then E necessarily has to happens. And if that necessary Event happens to be something god does, then god has to do it. If he doesn't do it then he is not omniscient; having failed to see that he would not do it. So, if god knows that in 24 years on June 2nd he will send a hurricane sailing into Florida, he does not have the choice not to send that hurricane. His will is not free to do otherwise.

    Now, some Christians contend that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total. That God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the freewill. Of course, limiting ones omniscience robs it of its very essence: knowing everything, which means he no longer merits the label, "omniscient." God is not omniscient at all---ya can't have your cake and eat it too. Moreover this convenient :rolleyes: "sometimes-omniscience" is not grounded in scripture but, as noted, comes from a grasping attempt to redefine god's character so as fit within Christian theology.

    Reminds me of the old Science Vs Creationist Cartoon where expediency drives one's logic.
    science v creationism facts can we make up 2.png

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    #1 Skwim, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Hurricanes don't have sails. :p
     
  3. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    An all-knowing conscious being violates the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle; a particle's exact position, **trajectory, momentum**, and velocity can't be simultaneously known.

    **edited** An all-knowing conscious being violates the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle; a particle's exact position, and velocity can't be simultaneously known.
     
    #3 Salvador, Jun 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  4. Road Warrior

    Road Warrior Seeking the middle path..

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    Given there is an all-powerful entity capable of creating a Universe with 100 billion galaxies and 100 billion stars per galaxy, then I think it's foolish to anthropomorphize such a power with human limitations. I doubt any mere mortal can comprehend such a power. Anyone who claims they "know what God wants" or "knows God" is either crazy or lying.
     
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  5. Road Warrior

    Road Warrior Seeking the middle path..

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    The Heisenberg principle only applies to the Natural Universe. A power that exists beyond it wouldn't be limited by Natural Universe laws.
     
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  6. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    But can we be certain about this?
     
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  7. Road Warrior

    Road Warrior Seeking the middle path..

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    We can't be certain of anything beyond the Natural Universe. In fact, we don't even know from whence it came, just that it did.
     
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  8. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    Well he'd have to I suppose! o_O
     
    #8 siti, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  9. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    A power that exists beyond the Natural universe, would naturally be outside the universe.
     
  10. Road Warrior

    Road Warrior Seeking the middle path..

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    Correct and, therefore, natural laws would not apply.
     
  11. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    Nor would any influence of said being outside the realm of our natural universe.
     
  12. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    Naturally!?
     
  13. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    Naturally!
     
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  14. Road Warrior

    Road Warrior Seeking the middle path..

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    Sorry, I don't understand your comment. Are you agreeing that natural universe laws do not apply to the God in the OP?
     
  15. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    If we don't accept the premise, are we free to dismiss the argument?
     
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  16. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    That's not logical, though.
    If A, therefore Z.
     
  17. Salvador

    Salvador Conscious Being

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    An observer who can know which slit of a double-slit that a particle travels through will cause a resulting particle pattern; whereas, there is a resulting wave pattern when there's the absence of an observer who can know which slit of a double-slit that the particle went through.

    An observer causes the collapse of a particle's wave function; hence, there'd be no wave patterns if there were always an observer knowing which slit of a double-slit that a particle went through.

     
    #17 Salvador, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
  18. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    He thinks that hurricanes have sails. I don't think the rest of his argument should be taken anymore seriously than that.
     
  19. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Possibly.
     
  20. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    How God's Omniscience Robs Him From Having A Free Will

    Not rightly put in my spiritual path (Advaita Vedanta).

    The above is like saying the playwright does not have free will over what happens in his play. I would say he does.
     
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