How does one Realise God

[Shantanu]

God will never seek to manifest Himself to human beings as Real because He is Nirguna (Paramatma): it is the jiva that has to approach God to experience advaita.

Any thoughts?

 

[YmirGF]

If you want it to be that way, sure, why not? Given that god concepts are, essentially, man-made concepts, it is not unreasonable to assume communication with the divine would have to originate with the individual.

 

[George-ananda]

Any thoughts?

From my Advaita Vedanta perspective we need to drop the illusion of separateness to realize ourselves as God.

 

[Vinayaka]

Not in words, not in intellect, but in experience, deepest of deepest meditation, beyond time, beyond form, beyond space, dissolved into light. Only the rarest of souls have 'attained' that which cannot be described, where there is no 'I'.

 

[Shantanu]

From my Advaita Vedanta perspective we need to drop the illusion of separateness to realize ourselves as God.

That is right only when vyavaharika and paramarthika are one and the same. While I remain a family man I stay within vyvaharika.

 

[Shantanu]

If you want it to be that way, sure, why not? Given that god concepts are, essentially, man-made concepts, it is not unreasonable to assume communication with the divine would have to originate with the individual.

God is so perfect when you realise God.

 

[Shantanu]

Not in words, not in intellect, but in experience, deepest of deepest meditation, beyond time, beyond form, beyond space, dissolved into light. Only the rarest of souls have 'attained' that which cannot be described, where there is no 'I'.

Would you say that it is defined as emptiness?

 

[Vinayaka]

Would you say that it is defined as emptiness?

I can't say a thing, it's not in words. I have heard it 'described' as emptiness ... and yet that emptiness is the fullness of everything'. Hard to use words about something that is beyond words. So I'll stop at this. But I will say there is no question whatsoever that this little 'I' ego most certainly hasn't realised God.

 

[Shantanu]

I can't say a thing, it's not in words. I have heard it 'described' as emptiness ... and yet that emptiness is the fullness of everything'. Hard to use words about something that is beyond words. So I'll stop at this. But I will say there is no question whatsoever that this little 'I' ego most certainly hasn't realised God.

Thank you for your answer. Only after one realises Nirguna God does the ego disappear not the other way round.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thank you for your answer. Only after one realises Nirguna God does the ego disappear not the other way round.

I wouldn't know.

 

[Shantanu]

I wouldn't know.

No worries.

 

[Valjean]

God will never seek to manifest Himself to human beings as Real because He is Nirguna (Paramatma): it is the jiva that has to approach God to experience advaita.

Any thoughts?

Thank you for your answer. Only after one realises Nirguna God does the ego disappear not the other way round.

Sex (He) and intention (seek) are gunas, and "approach" is problematic as one can't approach oneself.

"God" as generally conceived is a personage, an entity separate from oneself, with separate consciousness, intention, likes and dislikes, siddhis, &c. A God may be a personified animal, statue, rock or pretty much anything -- as long as it's conceived of as a conscious, independent, personified entity.

Energy fields, spacetime, light, physical branes, scientific laws, Brahman, philosophical principles and such may exist/be 'real', but they are not personified, so are not Gods.

The "goal," as you say, is an advaitist awareness; a merger with the featureless Reality underlying the universe. Religious folklore depicts aspirants 'approaching' or 'bowing to' sages or Devas. and doing all sorts of yogas to achieve Unity.

This is all very colorful, but what it boils down to appears to be, or at least begins as, a neurological abnormality; a DMN desynchronization, L. temporal seizure, or maybe a global synaesthesia.
The field, I think, would benefit from more study.

 

[Shantanu]

Sex (He) and intention (seek) are gunas, and "approach" is problematic as one can't approach oneself.

"God" as generally conceived is a personage, an entity separate from oneself, with separate consciousness, intention, likes and dislikes, siddhis, &c. A God may be a personified animal, statue, rock or pretty much anything -- as long as it's conceived of as a conscious, independent, personified entity.

Energy fields, spacetime, light, physical branes, scientific laws, Brahman, philosophical principles and such may exist/be 'real', but they are not personified, so are not Gods.

The "goal," as you say, is an advaitist awareness; a merger with the featureless Reality underlying the universe. Religious folklore depicts aspirants 'approaching' or 'bowing to' sages or Devas. and doing all sorts of yogas to achieve Unity.

This is all very colorful, but what it boils down to appears to be, or at least begins as, a neurological abnormality; a DMN desynchronization, L. temporal seizure, or maybe a global synaesthesia.
The field, I think, would benefit from more study.

I should have said 'It' for God in paramarthika (absolute truth) because God is Nirguna (Empty); only in vyvaharika illusion created through maya is God is both male (Sri Krishna) and a female (Durga).

 

[Valjean]

Do we even need Gods? Are they really the best tools for the job? Could we make more rapid progress without them?

 

[Shantanu]

Do we even need Gods? Are they really the best tools for the job? Could we make more rapid progress without them?

Do you not want to be perfect in what you do?

 

[Vinayaka]

Do we even need Gods? Are they really the best tools for the job? Could we make more rapid progress without them?

My take, for what it's worth, that in order to see God within ourselves, it helps to see God somewhere. For the mystic bhaktar, that somewhere is in the sanctified murthy.

 

[Valjean]

Do you not want to be perfect in what you do?

How are you defining "perfect?"
Meticulous? Organized? Going with the flow of dharma?

 

[Valjean]

My take, for what it's worth, that in order to see God within ourselves, it helps to see God somewhere. For the mystic bhaktar, that somewhere is in the sanctified murthy.

OK, for one best suited to the path of bhakti, a God or murti is useful, but for others, like those of a jnani nature, Gods or images may be useless distractions.

For myself, I have no desire to see a God, either within or without. Becoming a God might be a step in the right direction, but I prefer to keep my 'eye on the prize' and focus on the achievement of actual Unity, Samadhi, enlightenment or whatever you'd call it, in the simplest, most straightforward way possible, without all the mumbo-jumbo and ceremony.

 

[Vinayaka]

OK, for one best suited to the path of bhakti, a God or murti is useful, but for others, like those of a jnani nature, Gods or images may be useless distractions.

For myself, I have no desire to see a God, either within or without. Becoming a God might be a step in the right direction, but I prefer to keep my 'eye on the prize' and focus on the achievement of actual Unity, Samadhi, enlightenment or whatever you'd call it, in the simplest, most straightforward way possible, without all the mumbo-jumbo and ceremony.

Sure, we're free to do what works for us. In my sampradaya, jnana is a state, not a methodology, but again, whatever works.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Not in words, not in intellect, but in experience, deepest of deepest meditation, beyond time, beyond form, beyond space, dissolved into light. Only the rarest of souls have 'attained' that which cannot be described, where there is no 'I'.

Nice, but I do not think it is that rare.

That is right only when vyavaharika and paramarthika are one and the same. While I remain a family man I stay within vyvaharika.

"Jñeyaḥ sa nitya-sannyāsī, yo na dveṣṭi na kāṅkṣati;
nirdvandvo hi mahā-bāho. sukhaṁ bandhāt pramucyate." BG 5.3

(Know him as ever renounced one who neither hates nor desires (the fruits of his activities); such a person, free from all dualities, O mighty-armed Arjuna, easily overcomes material bondage and is completely liberated.)

"Yoga-sthaḥ kuru karmāṇi, saṅgaṁ tyaktvā, Dhanañjaya;
siddhy-asiddhyoḥ samo bhūtvā, samatvaṁ yoga ucyate." BG 2.48

(Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment, undisturbed by success or failure, such equanimity is called yoga.)