YeshuaRedeemed
Revelation 3:10
I don't know the answer to this question. I posted this here because I don't want to look like I am proselytizing in the wrong section. Can any Messianic Jewish people help me?
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How does Mesianic Judaism differ from Christianity?
- Thread starter YeshuaRedeemed
- Start date
IDK if we still have any Messianic Jews around, but pretty much, Messianic Judaism is a form of Christianity that holds the Mosaic Law as binding on Christians. They get circumcised, follow kosher laws, celebrate Jewish holidays like Hanukkah and Purim and Shavuot, etc. And @Tumah is right, Messianic Judaism was started by Protestant Christians as a way to make Christianity appeal more to Jews. I'd guess that Messianic Judaism has converted more Christians to Judaism than the other way around...
YeshuaRedeemed
Revelation 3:10
Oh, okay, so they observe Torah Law?
About as much as you can in the modern world--or as much as non-Jews reading about the Mosaic Law from the Tanakh can figure out.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I found this:
There is a variety of practice within Messianic Judaism regarding the strictness of Torah observance. Generally, "Torah observant" congregations observe Jewish prayers, biblical feasts, and Sabbath.[194] While most traditional Christians deny that the ritual laws and specific civil laws of the Pentateuch apply to gentiles, certain passages[195] regarding Torah observance in the New Testament are cited by some Messianic believers as proof that Torah was not abolished for Jews. They point out that in Acts 21, Jewish believers in Jerusalem are described as "zealous for the Law".
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism#Torah_observance
So, not as much as you can, and of course, the Jewish prayers part is not easily discerned from the Mosaic Law.-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism#Torah_observance
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
I don't think that Messianic Jews know what a Jew is. The one's I've come into contact with ????
74x12
Well-Known Member
The term means different things to different people. For many it just means that they are Jewish by birth but became believers in Yeshua.
74x12
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily, some do and will insist that you must. But the term Messianic Jew means different things to different people.
Yohanan ben Yaaqov
Member
“Messianic Judaism” is a sect, or denomination if you will, of chr-stianity. In 1885 a Methodist ch-rch on the lower east side of Manhattan New York created the “Hope of Israel” mission. “Hope of Israel” published a monthly magazine called “Our Hope,” and beginning with the ninth edition in 1895 it carried the subtitle: “A Monthly Devoted to the Study of Prophecy and to Messianic Judaism.” This was the very first time the term “Messianic Judaism” was ever used.
By the 1950’s “Messianic” became a blanket term for all Jews who had been converted to Protestant chr-stianity. A Southern Baptist Minister created “Jews for J-sus” in the 1960’s. These types of people are nothing more than militant chr-stian missionaries hell-bent on converting Jews to chr-stianity.
As it stands today, “Messianic Jewish” congregations are nothing more than chr-stians cosplaying as Jews; aka masquerading as Jews; aka playing dress-up as Jews. The vast majority of “messianic Jews” are gentiles, who have no prior knowledge of Judaism, what it believes or teaches, but suddenly think they are Jews.
If someone believes in the chr-stian hero, and believes in the chr-stian stories, they are a chr-stian. You cannot be a chr-stian and still be Jewish, because you cannot be Jewish and practice any foreign religion.
Whether chr-stians like or not, chr-stianity is avodah zarah – aka foreign worship – aka idolatry – aka pagan. Contrary to chr-stian wishful thinking, there is absolutely no common ground between chr-stianity and Judaism.
The belief that any god, anywhere, anytime, for any reason could or would produce a child with a human being is pagan, and is a forbidden religious practice – aka idolatry.
The belief that any god, anywhere, anytime for any reason could or would have any literal offspring of any nature is pagan, and is a forbidden religious practice – aka idolatry.
If anyone believes in the chr-stian hero and in the stories about him, regardless of whether or not they are using the “chr-stian” moniker, they are practicing idolatry.
If a biological Jew abandons Jewish worship for any other worship practice, he becomes an apostate Jew – aka he is no longer Jewish. If a Jew converts to chr-stianity, he is a chr-stian Jew, but still an apostate Jew. There is no such thing as Jewish chr-stian; no such thing as Judeo-chr-stian; it is simply not possible. The beliefs of Judaism and chr-stianity are worlds and worlds and worlds apart.
Messianic Judaism is a chr-stian sect, with no connection of any kind to Judaism.
By the 1950’s “Messianic” became a blanket term for all Jews who had been converted to Protestant chr-stianity. A Southern Baptist Minister created “Jews for J-sus” in the 1960’s. These types of people are nothing more than militant chr-stian missionaries hell-bent on converting Jews to chr-stianity.
As it stands today, “Messianic Jewish” congregations are nothing more than chr-stians cosplaying as Jews; aka masquerading as Jews; aka playing dress-up as Jews. The vast majority of “messianic Jews” are gentiles, who have no prior knowledge of Judaism, what it believes or teaches, but suddenly think they are Jews.
If someone believes in the chr-stian hero, and believes in the chr-stian stories, they are a chr-stian. You cannot be a chr-stian and still be Jewish, because you cannot be Jewish and practice any foreign religion.
Whether chr-stians like or not, chr-stianity is avodah zarah – aka foreign worship – aka idolatry – aka pagan. Contrary to chr-stian wishful thinking, there is absolutely no common ground between chr-stianity and Judaism.
The belief that any god, anywhere, anytime, for any reason could or would produce a child with a human being is pagan, and is a forbidden religious practice – aka idolatry.
The belief that any god, anywhere, anytime for any reason could or would have any literal offspring of any nature is pagan, and is a forbidden religious practice – aka idolatry.
If anyone believes in the chr-stian hero and in the stories about him, regardless of whether or not they are using the “chr-stian” moniker, they are practicing idolatry.
If a biological Jew abandons Jewish worship for any other worship practice, he becomes an apostate Jew – aka he is no longer Jewish. If a Jew converts to chr-stianity, he is a chr-stian Jew, but still an apostate Jew. There is no such thing as Jewish chr-stian; no such thing as Judeo-chr-stian; it is simply not possible. The beliefs of Judaism and chr-stianity are worlds and worlds and worlds apart.
Messianic Judaism is a chr-stian sect, with no connection of any kind to Judaism.
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
Shallom.
That is about as clear as I have ever seen it said. It is doubtful that I have any Jewish heritage. In your opinion, can I live a life pleasing to the Creator, what is a gentile to do?
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Just as a point of information, the traditional transliteration of שלום is Shalom, only one "l".
Judaism teaches that the righteous of all nations have a share in the world to come. In other words, you don't have to be a Jew to find favor with the divine. You don't have to be a Jew to be blessed by G-d, to be loved by G-d. Traditionally, Judaism has taught that non-Jews are required only to observe the שבע מצוות בני נח, the seven commandments/laws of Noah. (Actually, it is a bit more complex than that, but let this suffice for now.) If you want more information, there is, I think, a lot of information on the web. You can also ask my friend @Rival.
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There is also a lot of misinformation as well. All sorts of mostly Christians claiming to be Noachides, if we can use this term just to configure a religious belief instead of a heritage also. There are some ridiculous anti-Semitic websites asking people to beware the Noachide Laws; again, Christians who feel their special guy is being pushed out. It's a rather unfortunate mess.
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
Thank you. Of course, I have been indoctrinated with the idea that if I do not believe that Jesus is the Son, I will go to damnation ... I am familiar that there are at least two versions of his last days. One is the Muslim version and the other is the Christian version. I've been to Israel and asked questions trying to find truth and not gotten anything. All I have to give to G_d is my heart, and contriteness and repentance ...
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I am not a Messianic Jew, but here is a little info I think might help.
It's difficult to answer any questions about Messianic Judaism, because there is very little agreement on what it is. But the there are two things everyone agrees on:
1. They follow Jesus (whom they refer to as Yeshua), which is a Christian belief. Most embrace typically protestant theology, such as inerrant scripture, trinitarianism, etc. A few do not believe Jesus is God.
2. They follow Torah, or at least the Jewish believers do (sometimes the Messianic Gentiles do, others times not)
Everything else they disagree over.
Originally it was a missionary movement designed to lure Jews into mainstream Baptist churches. It outgrew that and became permanent residences for Jewish Christians. The problem was, it did a much better job of attracting Gentiles (who found the Jewish roots of Christianity attractive) than of attracting Jews, and many congregations have nary a Jew present. It begs the question, how can you call it Messianic Judaism if there are no Jews? Some of the congregations have rebelled and only allowed Jews and intermarrieds.
None of the main branches of Judaism accept MJ as Judaism.
One of the recent books written by Mark Kinzer called Post Missionary Messianic Judaism puts forth the best argument that the movement is a Judaism. IMHO, I still think you can't get away from the fact that it blatantly follows Jesus, which is a Christian belief, although I am sympathetic to Mr. Kinzer's desires to retain his Jewish identity. I think that Mr. Kinzer needs to come to terms with the fact that as long as he worships Jesus he is an apostate Jew.
I think Messianic Judaism falls under the heading of RELIGIOUS SYNCRETISM.
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
This isn't the first time I've heard this! LOL I don't know if it's true or not, but given how overwhelmed with gentiles their congregations are, I wouldn't be at all surprised. And wouldn't it be ironic?
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
The more I read about Judaism, it is clear that non-Jews really have no idea at all.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
You mean non-Jews have no idea what Judaism is about? I would agree.
Ellen Brown
Well-Known Member
I've almost begged to be taught about Judaism and all they do is sit there all smug and like.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
It's the duty of every Rabbi to discourage you from inquiry. They are to send you away three times. Even I have gone out of my way to explain to you that it is not necessary for you to be a Jew, and that it comes with drawbacks such as anti-Semitism. If you still return, then they teach you.
Personally, I think you've been very persistent in asking about Judaism. I'm very happy to teach you. I'm not sure if it should be a thread or PM. I don't want to come across in the forum as though I'm proselytizing.
Where would you like to start? Hayim Donin begins his book, "To Be a Jew" with a chapter on kindness. However, a lot could be said about Shabbat being a good starting point, since Jews returning to Judaism often begin here. We can talk about Jewish identity, which has deep roots in the Exodus story. Or I can just answer your questions. I'm no Rabbi, but I have years of living as an Orthodox Jew under my belt, which means I keep a kosher home, was shomer Shabbas (and am still observant to Conservative standards), and went out of my way to create a hospitable home. My experience with the Reform has familiarized me with the larger ethical issues that Judaism informs, especially Tzedakah, which is a kind of mandatory charity, and Tikkun Olam, the "Repair of the World." I don't disrespect any of the denominations. I see each of them as having their plusses and minuses, and personally I feel at home wherever Jews of any sort are gathered.
BTW, Rabbi O has informed you that righteous Gentiles are to keep the seven Noahide laws. They are more like categories of behavior, but they are pretty basic. They are:
- Do not murder.
- Do not steal.
- Do not worship false gods.
- Do not be sexually immoral.
- Do not eat a limb removed from a live animal.
- Do not curse God.
- Set up courts and bring offenders to justice.
Locate Sources for the 7 Commandments | AskNoah.org
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