How does Joel 3:1 read interpreted from Hebrew?

[2ndpillar]

New American Standard Bible
"For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

King James Bible
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

The first interpretation fits current events, and the second fits Zechariah 14 for a very brief point of time before the "lord" intervenes. Which is the correct translation?

 

[james2ko]

New American Standard Bible
"For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

King James Bible
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

The first interpretation fits current events, and the second fits Zechariah 14 for a very brief point of time before the "lord" intervenes. Which is the correct translation?

Verse 2 seems to provide the timing of vs 1:

Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land.
​

This valley is a reference to the future gathering place of the nation's armies, commonly referred to as Armageddon , who will decide to fight Christ at His return (Rev 16:16; 19:17-21). I would seem to fit the context of Zec 14 best.

see Valley of Jehoshaphat

​

 

[Tumah]

New American Standard Bible
"For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

King James Bible
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

The first interpretation fits current events, and the second fits Zechariah 14 for a very brief point of time before the "lord" intervenes. Which is the correct translation?

Because behold, in those days and in that time, which I shall return the captive of Judah and Jerusalem.

 

[2ndpillar]

Because behold, in those days and in that time, which I shall return the captive of Judah and Jerusalem.

Thanks for the information.

 

[2ndpillar]

Verse 2 seems to provide the timing of vs 1:

Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also divided up My land.
​

This valley is a reference to the future gathering place of the nation's armies, commonly referred to as Armageddon , who will decide to fight Christ at His return (Rev 16:16; 19:17-21). I would seem to fit the context of Zec 14 best.

see Valley of Jehoshaphat

​

Dear james,
Zechariah 14:2 states that "I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished, and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle". This portrays the Lord waiting for Jerusalem to be captured before he strikes "the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem;" with a "plague" much like acute radiation poisoning. "Their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, etc. " (Zechariah 14:12)

At the time of the battle in the valley of judgment, Israel, according to Joel 3:2, apparently still remains "scattered among the nations". Jeremiah 30:13 shows that the lord will "destroy completely" "all the nations where I have scattered you", and " I will not destroy you completely". "But I will chasten you justly"

Apparently, the house of Israel will not be gathered and united with the house of Judah until after Judah and lord have defeated "all the nations" (Zechariah 14:14). This is reflected in Ezekiel 37:16-28.

 

[james2ko]

Dear james,
Zechariah 14:2 states that "I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished, and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle". This portrays the Lord waiting for Jerusalem to be captured before he strikes "the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem;" with a "plague" much like acute radiation poisoning. "Their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, etc. " (Zechariah 14:12)

At the time of the battle in the valley of judgment, Israel, according to Joel 3:2, apparently still remains "scattered among the nations". Jeremiah 30:13 shows that the lord will "destroy completely" "all the nations where I have scattered you", and " I will not destroy you completely". "But I will chasten you justly"

Apparently, the house of Israel will not be gathered and united with the house of Judah until after Judah and lord have defeated "all the nations" (Zechariah 14:14). This is reflected in Ezekiel 37:16-28.

I agree with a physical gathering of the two houses. But I also believe there is a spiritual gathering of both houses prior to their physical gathering. This is alluded to in Joel 2:27-32:

Joe 2:27-32 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel: I am the LORD your God And there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame. 28 "And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. 30 "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. 32 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.
​

This was a prophecy partially fulfilled during the first NT Pentecost--the outpouring of the holy spirit to the Jews of the house of Judah (Act 2:5). It was quoted by Peter in Act 2:16-21. The spirit was poured out on the 10 tribes of the house of Israel (aka gentiles) later, beginning with Cornelius. I think this spiritual gathering is continuing today. I believe there will also be a latter fulfillment to Joel's prophecy just prior to Messiah's return.

 

[2ndpillar]

I agree with a physical gathering of the two houses. But I also believe there is a spiritual gathering of both houses prior to their physical gathering. This is alluded to in Joel 2:27-32:

Joe 2:27-32 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel: I am the LORD your God And there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame. 28 "And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. 29 And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. 30 "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. 32 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.
​

This was a prophecy partially fulfilled during the first NT Pentecost--the outpouring of the holy spirit to the Jews of the house of Judah (Act 2:5). It was quoted by Peter in Act 2:16-21. The spirit was poured out on the 10 tribes of the house of Israel (aka gentiles) later, beginning with Cornelius. I think this spiritual gathering is continuing today. I believe there will also be a latter fulfillment to Joel's prophecy just prior to Messiah's return.

Dear james,
The "I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh" (Joel 2:28) , refers to the time of the "awesome day of the Lord comes" (Joel 2:28-31). An example would be the letter that was recently released that was written by the head rabbi of Jerusalem, telling of his vision.

As for the joining of the stick of Joseph, with the stick of Judah (Ez 37:16), that follows the opening of the "graves", of "My people and I will bring you into the land of Israel." (Ez 37:12) That would be the 1st resurrection, which precedes the combining of the sticks, and "My servant David will be king over them" (Ez 37:24), ..."and they shall live on the land I gave to Jacob ....forever". (Ez 37:25). This has to do with the 21st century, 2 days/2000 years after "I will go away and return to My place" (Hosea 5:15- 6:2). According to Is 26:19, once "your dead will live" (Is 26:19), then "my people enter into your rooms" (Is 26:20), for apparently, all hell is going to break out (valley of judgment) with respect to Joel 3:2..

Most citizens of Jerusalem have a specially equipped room to enter into.

 

[james2ko]

Dear james,

The "I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh" (Joel 2:28) , refers to the time of the "awesome day of the Lord comes" (Joel 2:28-31). An example would be the letter that was recently released that was written by the head rabbi of Jerusalem, telling of his vision.

As for the joining of the stick of Joseph, with the stick of Judah (Ez 37:16), that follows the opening of the "graves", of "My people and I will bring you into the land of Israel." (Ez 37:12) That would be the 1st resurrection, which precedes the combining of the sticks, and "My servant David will be king over them" (Ez 37:24), ..."and they shall live on the land I gave to Jacob ....forever". (Ez 37:25). This has to do with the 21st century, 2 days/2000 years after "I will go away and return to My place" (Hosea 5:15- 6:2). According to Is 26:19, once "your dead will live" (Is 26:19), then "my people enter into your rooms" (Is 26:20), for apparently, all hell is going to break out (valley of judgment) with respect to Joel 3:2..

Most citizens of Jerusalem have a specially equipped room to enter into.

The NT alludes to a similar unity of the two houses. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christianity completely misses this very important New Covenant teaching. The apostle John also refers to Joel's prophecy with additional detail:

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

Rev 6:12-13,17 I watched as the Lamb broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake. The sun became as dark as black cloth, and the moon became as red as blood. 13 Then the stars of the sky fell to the earth like green figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind. 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"​

 

[2ndpillar]

The NT alludes to a similar unity of the two houses. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christianity completely misses this very important New Covenant teaching. The apostle John also refers to Joel's prophecy with additional detail:

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

Rev 6:12-13,17 I watched as the Lamb broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake. The sun became as dark as black cloth, and the moon became as red as blood. 13 Then the stars of the sky fell to the earth like green figs falling from a tree shaken by a strong wind. 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"​

Dear james,
If you read Ezekiel 37:19-21, you will find out that with respect to the combining of the sticks, that "I will take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land:". This is with respect to Joel 3:1-2, whereas Judah and Jerusalem are "restored", "My inheritance, Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations", remains scattered. To combine the sticks, one must first take Israel from among the nations (Ez 37:19). and "My servant David will be king over them... and keep My statutes, and observe them." (Ez 37:24)

Israel remains "scattered among the nations", and separate from the "House of Judah", and I am thinking the "great earthquake" (Rev 6:12) is simply waiting in the wings. I am also thinking that the "stars of the sky" will not actually fall "to the earth", but comets, asteroids, and missiles might make a good substitution. The sun is a star, and only one could fall to the earth, and then you would have no earth.

 

[Torah4Yah]

New American Standard Bible
"For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

King James Bible
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

The first interpretation fits current events, and the second fits Zechariah 14 for a very brief point of time before the "lord" intervenes. Which is the correct translation?

 

[2ndpillar]

2ndpillar said: ↑
New American Standard Bible
"For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,

King James Bible
For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

Torah wrote:
The first interpretation fits current events, and the second fits Zechariah 14 for a very brief point of time before the "lord" intervenes. Which is the correct translation?

Dear torah,
Judah was restored in 1948, and Jerusalem was restored in 1967. We are now in the 50 year Jubilee of the restoration of Jerusalem, which is the year land is returned to Israel. Jerusalem had to be restored in order for "Jerusalem" to be "captured" (Zechariah 14:2). "I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle" before Jerusalem can be captured. (Zech 14;2). The 10 nations of Psalm 83 have been conspiring to "wipe them out as a nation" since 1948, or even possibly back to the Balfour Declaration of 1917. The coming of the Lord to fight is dependent of "Jerusalem" being "captured". It can not be captured until it is restored. The egg comes before the chicken. Depending on the KJB is like depending on a book written for the glory of the gay king of England. In a pinch, maybe, but preferably not. Being 2017 is the 50th anniversary of the restoration of Jerusalem, you won't have to ask what will happen. The best opportunity for the toes of iron and clay (Daniel 2:34-35) to capture Jerusalem is now, before Trump takes office.