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How does evolution and the Pope making it unchanging in Faith work?

Skwim

Veteran Member
It's interesting to me too Deeje, that the Genesis account explains why sex came about.
Do you mean the two different sexes (genders), male and female, or sexual intercourse?
If it's the later, then chapter and verse please.

Evolution theory can't.
For the two genders see HERE
For sexual intercourse see HERE

The creation account also explains why man has about 10,000 taste receptors - known to man, that is. Evolution can't.
I assume the issue isn't taste receptors themselves but the number, 10,000. I know why taste receptors themselves developed, which you can read about HERE, but as for the specific number, which is commonly given as 2,000 to 8,000, perhaps not. If it is the number why is this important? In any case, please provide the Bible chapter and verse for the 10,000.

For example the contoured shape of the ear, the fact that the urinary opening is not blocked at birth, and for a good number of years after, as with the vaginal opening... etc. etc.
Nothing about the design of the human body can be written off as chanced processes.
Yet, written off, it is... in the minds of believers in the ToE.

"Design"! Like Intelligent Design? You have to be kidding. If it's so intelligent, and I know you believe it is, then. . .

Why design men with nipples,
Why design the esophagus and trachea with a common opening thereby vastly increasing the chance of chocking and possible death?
Why design the human body with muscle fibers that produce goose bumps?.
Why design us with an appendix, the tail bone?
And if evolution was not at work then why would tails appear on some humans?​



humans with tails.png


Ah yes, Intelligent Design. :rolleyes: Or did mischievous demons slip these past god while he was napping?



.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
By definition in the English language Why? is a philosophical speculative claim by many different phyllisophical and religious perspectives concerning Why? the nature of our existence, and none of them are in agreement, consistent and predictable in their conclusions as science is based on the objective verifiable evidence. Philosophical Ontologists will propose 'Why?' from their perspective and disagree wth Theist, agnostics, Monists, or other many conflicted diverse beliefs of 'Why? anything is the way it is.

Science is as science is predictable any consistent world wide as presented in all the major universities as to the How?, When? and Where? of the nature of our physical existence.

Your previous post said 'explain' not why?. Science can explain all of the above.
Science explains why sex came about?
I heard your claim. I don't see you providing any actual paper to support such claims.
Therefore... claim acknowledged and dismissed.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Do you mean the two different sexes (genders), male and female, or sexual intercourse?
If it's the later, then chapter and verse please.


For the two genders see HERE
For sexual intercourse see HERE


I assume the issue isn't taste receptors themselves but the number, 10,000. I know why taste receptors themselves developed, which you can read about HERE, but as for the specific number, which is commonly given as 2,000 to 8,000, perhaps not. If it is the number why is this important? In any case, please provide the Bible chapter and verse for the 10,000.



"Design"! Like Intelligent Design? You have to be kidding. If it's so intelligent, and I know you believe it is, then. . .

Why design men with nipples,
Why design the esophagus and trachea with a common opening thereby vastly increasing the chance of chocking and possible death?
Why design the human body with muscle fibers that produce goose bumps?.
Why design us with an appendix, the tail bone?
And if evolution was not at work then why would tails appear on some humans?​



Ah yes, Intelligent Design. :rolleyes: Or did mischievous demons slip these past god while he was napping?



.
A woman was born without a vagina. Maybe she was a plant that evolved.
The doctors didn't think so though. They called it an abnormality.
b7922376c8ea6e02a73f724acfe985b1.jpg
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
What are you talking about?! What is Genesis' "explanation?"
You obviously don't understand the ToE, or you wouldn't be saying it has no explanation for sex, taste receptors or any other biological features.
We can keep adding up those differences by the numbers.
And how are these problematic? How do they conflict with evolution?
I agree, our design is not due to chance. Your evident belief that this is the purport of the ToE shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Your conclusions are based on incorrect premises.
Why did you first acknowledged that you don't understanding what I said, and then follow through with demonstrating it?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Of course evolution can. Sex provides genetic diversity.

Asexual reproduction allows a greater rate of growth for a population and takes less energy to do, but sexual reproduction makes a population less vulnerable to disease. Both have their advantages, depending on their situation.
That all sounds interesting, but I don't see how it relates to anything I said.

... though what do you see as the "explanation" for sex in Genesis? By my reading, the Genesis explanation for the two sexes is that it was God's "Plan B" after Adam rejected God's suggestion of every kind of bestiality.
Really? That certainly is interesting. I really am quite amazed at what some people get from reading passages of scripture.
It's revealing.

Did you read Genesis Chapter one, by any chance?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
@Skwim thanks for the links.
I don't have time to look at them now, but you can be certain I will gladly look at the ideas asap. Take care.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Science explains why sex came about?

I heard your claim. I don't see you providing any actual paper to support such claims.
Therefore... claim acknowledged and dismissed.

Unethically misquoting me as usual to justify your religious agenda.

Science determines How? What? When? and Where? things take place and not Why?. Why? is a subjective claim by philosophy and theology, with diverse conflicting inconsistent claims concerning Why? things happen.

Science is consistent, and predictable in their knowledge of How? When? What, and Where things happen.

What I said: "Science is as science is predictable and consistent world wide as presented in all the major universities as to the How?, When? and Where? of the nature of our physical existence.

Your previous post said 'explain' not why?. Science can explain all of the above."

In the previous paragraph I firmly stated that science does not 'explain' Why? A major problem is your self-imposed ignorance as to the knowledge of science describing 'What? When?, Where? and How? of the nature of our physical existence.

Do you have a problem with the English language? I realize you have a problem with basic high school science.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Yes. Did you?
Funny. I am not the one who missed the Genesis explanation for the two sexes, in Chapter one. You did.
So something happened to either your eyes, or mind, when you read it. Try reading it again, and see if you get the same result.
That's odd.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Things that have happened are no longer subject to chance, they happened 100%
However there are odds against them happening again by pure chance, and that might be in the realm of the impossible to unlikely, if the conditions have changed.

It is clear that the conditions and circumstances were exactly right for life to appear when it did... because it Did.
The same is true of the appearance of man through evolution. We are here so 100% it was possible.
The chances of man evolving again are practically zero, as the conditions have changed.

Man as we know him today was only one of many similar hominids, we are the only one to survive, though we do still have some of the Dna of closely related species.
We are still evolving, and all of the species (distinctive races) of man are able to sexually reproduce so are very closely related indeed. However it is likely at some distant future time there will evolve one or more species of man that can not inter breed. At that point man as we know him to be may well be on the road to extinction.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Funny. I am not the one who missed the Genesis explanation for the two sexes, in Chapter one. You did.
So something happened to either your eyes, or mind, when you read it. Try reading it again, and see if you get the same result.
That's odd.
I notice you keep avoiding answering the question: what do you see as the "explanation" for sex in Genesis?

(Hint: it's not "be fruitful and multiply" since asexual reproduction is a thing)
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Funny. I am not the one who missed the Genesis explanation for the two sexes, in Chapter one. You did.
So something happened to either your eyes, or mind, when you read it. Try reading it again, and see if you get the same result.
That's odd.

The Genesis explanation for everything concerning 'origins' is based on mythology.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
The Genesis explanation for everything concerning 'origins' is based on mythology.
It's mythology in the sense that it firns part of the "origin story" for the Jewish people, but I see no reason to assume that the people who originally wrote it down didn't actually believe that, say, the sky really was a solid dome, and that the stars were holes punched in it.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Things that have happened are no longer subject to chance, they happened 100%
However there are odds against them happening again by pure chance, and that might be in the realm of the impossible to unlikely, if the conditions have changed.

It is clear that the conditions and circumstances were exactly right for life to appear when it did... because it Did.
The same is true of the appearance of man through evolution. We are here so 100% it was possible.
The chances of man evolving again are practically zero, as the conditions have changed.

The natural course of cause and effect events in the past and today were never subject to chance or randomness. They are determined by natural laws and natural processes.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
its official Church of Catholicism stuff. No Catholic can now deny it, and Popes of the future can never change it. I think getting evolution due to luck and chance is absurd. How does the Bible work with evolution? What’s literal and what isn’t? In Catholic beliefs?

I'm not a catholic, or christian for that matter, but even I can answer this. And it seems pretty easy......

Take your current christian beliefs as-is.
It includes the claims that god made the world and all living things, correct?
So take this statement here and remember it for later down this post: "God created humans, elephants, dino's and all other species".

Science shows us that species evolved from common ancestors. This is a mechanism, a process: evolution. So evolution is the process by which species are created.


Now, that statement from above that we set aside? Let's grab that statement and inject into it what we've discovered through scientific study:

"God created humans, elephants, dino's and all other species and used the evolutionary process to do so".


So there. Nothing else needs changing. You can continue to believe the same magical things about jesus and the resurection and miracles of living in a fish for 3 days and making the blind see and what not.

Now, sure, this means that things "died" before humans existed. I'm aware that there are YEC fundamentalists out there that really believe that things only started to die once adam and eve sinned by listening to the talking snake and eating from the magical fruit in the magical garden. But let's be honest here... it that's the belief you started out with, then it already wasn't very sophisticated to begin with, right........

So if you are one of them, here might be a good occasion for you to up the game a little and stop believing in obvious fairy tales. I, obviously, don't agree with the catholic position. But hey... at least their position doesn't require them to simply dismiss the evidence of reality with but handwave..............................
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
It's mythology in the sense that it firns part of the "origin story" for the Jewish people, but I see no reason to assume that the people who originally wrote it down didn't actually believe that, say, the sky really was a solid dome, and that the stars were holes punched in it.

The mythology of the past is a part of our heritage, but there is no reason to believe it is factual today.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
its official Church of Catholicism stuff. No Catholic can now deny it, and Popes of the future can never change it.

What are you talking about..? There's no rule... Catholics can think whatever they want about evolution, including the rejection of it.

...Future popes can deny it all they want. Where did you hear otherwise?
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
Do you mean the two different sexes (genders), male and female, or sexual intercourse?
If it's the later, then chapter and verse please.


For the two genders see HERE
For sexual intercourse see HERE


I assume the issue isn't taste receptors themselves but the number, 10,000. I know why taste receptors themselves developed, which you can read about HERE, but as for the specific number, which is commonly given as 2,000 to 8,000, perhaps not. If it is the number why is this important? In any case, please provide the Bible chapter and verse for the 10,000.



"Design"! Like Intelligent Design? You have to be kidding. If it's so intelligent, and I know you believe it is, then. . .

Why design men with nipples,
Why design the esophagus and trachea with a common opening thereby vastly increasing the chance of chocking and possible death?
Why design the human body with muscle fibers that produce goose bumps?.
Why design us with an appendix, the tail bone?
And if evolution was not at work then why would tails appear on some humans?​



Ah yes, Intelligent Design. :rolleyes: Or did mischievous demons slip these past god while he was napping?



.

After the fall of Adam and Eve, God took away parts of our bodies and added some different parts... This information was not included in the bible.

...The Bible also doesn't talk about the breaking up of Pangea, which occured just 80,000 years ago, not too long after the fall.
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
After the fall of Adam and Eve, God took away parts of our bodies and added some different parts... This information was not included in the bible.

...The Bible also doesn't talk about the breaking up of Pangea, which occured just 80,000 years ago, not too long after the fall.
:rolleyes:

.
 
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