Searcher of Light
Member
I thought to start a new series of threads called "How do you view?" How do you view the Catholic Church What do you approve or disprove of their beliefs? why?
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How do you view: the Catholic Church
- Thread starter Searcher of Light
- Start date
Francine
Well-Known Member
I think the Catholic Church has the best claim to being founded by Christ himself. The Orthodox Church has nearly the same claim, but they reject the Petrine Primacy, when Scripture clearly has Christ giving the keys of the kingdom of heaven to St. Peter. What I don't like about the Catholic Church is the bureaucratic inertia which has made it slow to respond to what Father Greeley called "The Year of the Pedophile", and it was certain decisions to move bad priests around rather than remove them from ministry that led to that terrible scandal.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
If I were not a Latter-day Saint, but were to remain a Christian, I would likely consider Roman Catholicism as my choice of religion. I am attracted to it for several reasons, most of which are things which Catholicism and Mormonism have in common. That we have anything at all in common may surprise a lot of people, but we do, and those things are important to me. I am also drawn to the beautiful of the architecture of some of the world's beautiful Catholic churches and cathedrals and to the majesty of the mass -- although I do not believe that the ancient Church incorporated most of the pomp and ceremony into its worship services that Catholicism does. Finally, I like Catholics, and that makes a difference to me. For the most part, they accept me as a fellow-Christian, even though they may strongly disagree with some of the doctrines I believe in. They're not generally into the idea of telling me that I'm going to burn in Hell because I don't believe as they do.
Smoke
Done here.
Unfortunately for that claim, he said, "unto thee," and not "unto thee and thy successors," and the New Testament clearly shows Peter deferring to James.
However, the Orthodox Church has always acknowledged the primacy of Rome, provided that the Pope professes the Orthodox Christian faith. Primacy in the Orthodox Church doesn't mean universal jurisdiction, though.
In my view, all of the historic churches -- Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Church of the East -- can make equally good claims to historical continuity with early church, and which is the most "authentic" of the historic churches is almost entirely a matter of whom you believe to be the most correct in doctrine.
Things I dislike about Roman Catholicism (some of which are common to most forms of Christianity):
1) The universal jurisdiction of the Pope of Rome, both within the Church and without, and the papacy's endless meddling and assertion of authority in worldly affairs -- placing countries under Interdiction, asserting the right to choose kings, sponsoring Crusades against infidels and heretics, claims of political sovereignty, threatening Catholic politicians who don't vote in line with the Vatican, etc., etc.
2) Institutionalized bigotry against women and LGBTs.
3) Catholic theology (and the theology of its Protestant progeny), which I consider overly legalistic and lacking in subtlety.
4) Excessive dogmatism, which has resulted in the papacy's taking official and often unfortunate positions on matters as diverse as heliocentrism and contraception.
5) The glorification of suffering -- not as prevalent as it once was, but still evident in many Catholic circles.
6) The inability to distinguish mental illness from sanctity. Many Roman Catholic saints were obviously mentally and/or emotionally disordered, and the glorification of their unhealthy spirituality and behavior is unfortunate. I have in mind especially Catherine of Siena, but many other examples could be listed.
7) Excessive credulity with regard to miracles and apparitions.
8) Unhealthy attitudes toward sexuality, including the unfortunate insistence on sacerdotal celibacy in the Roman Rite.
9) Just war theory.
10) Uniatism, which I see as form of aggression against Eastern Christians.
11) Unhealthy attitudes toward spirituality. Besides what I've already mentioned, I have in mind especially the excessive allowance for cataphatic theology and cataphatic mysticism, which is one of the chief reasons I prefer Eastern Christianity and most forms of Buddhism to Western Christianity.
Things I like about Roman Catholicism:
1) The Rosary.
2) Those mystics who better exemplify the apophatic tradition within Christianity, like Meister Eckhart and the author of the Cloud of Unknowing.
3) The greater allowance (as compared to the Eastern churches) for active monasticism as distinct from monasticism that is purely or mainly contemplative.
I believe the Catholic Church is the church founded directly by Jesus...
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Close...but no cigar.
I suspect if Jesus was alive today the RCC would receive the same treatment he gave to the pharisees. I think the RCC needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. They need to ordain women priests for a start and then elect a woman pope. As women bear children the prohibition on birth control nonsense would soon be kicked into touch!
Francine
Well-Known Member
They need to ordain women priests for a start and then elect a woman pope. As women bear children the prohibition on birth control nonsense would soon be kicked into touch!
Okay, I'm all about women and everything (wink) but if you want a church with women priests and a woman pope and everyone using condoms...go start your own.
sandandfoam
Veteran Member
They can't provide the pope but for women clergy, gay clergy and condoms if you please, I gather that the Anglicans are the way to go.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
"Where three or four are gathered, there's always a fifth!...:drunk:
GayAtheist
Member
I think the Catholic Church is one of the best adverts for Atheism
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
It's biggest problem is on display right in its name. In incredible arrogance, its leadership asserts itself to be the interpretive voice of "God" itself. The result is that authority takes precedence over direct experience and the world is carved up into pieces - "Catholic/heretic," "saved/unsaved," etc. It becomes easy for the rightness of belief and observance of the ritual to take precedence over love and listening.
Of course, that's a two-way street. Individuals have to relinquish their inheritance for the Church to have authority.
Of course, that's a two-way street. Individuals have to relinquish their inheritance for the Church to have authority.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
"Roman Catholic Church" isn't really a title. It's a descriptor. This group is the part of the universal (catholic) Church centered in Rome. It's not hubris.doppelgänger;1031870 said:
I don't understand your last sentence. It is because of the Church that Christ is mediated to the world, and, therefore, the world inherits God's kingdom.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
Rather, despite the Church, I'd say. :yes:
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Huh??? How do you figure that?doppelgänger;1032025 said:
The Church is not a particular building, group, organization, ideology, etc. The Church is the mystical Body of Christ. It knows no particular theology or identity other than that. Everything else is so much fluff. maybe you're referring to the fluff...but I hope you're not referring to the Church.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
That's not the Roman Catholic Church's position. That's the sojourner (and some other Christians) position.
Poke around here a bit and learn what "the Church" is at it relates to the one mentioned in the OP: NEW ADVENT: Home
I'll get you started: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Sacraments
Captain Civic
version 2.0
The only reason I have any respect for the Catholic church is that they 1) at least have good intentions and 2) stuck around long enough for Protestants to appear.
Francine
Well-Known Member
And you forgot 3) Provided something for Protestants to protest!
One time they asked James Dean what he was rebelling against, and he said, "What have you got?" A latter day Martin Luther.
Captain Civic
version 2.0
But of course!
I do appreciate them. I just disagree with a few key elements (and not so key practises) that they have.