How do you view: Islam

[Searcher of Light]

How do you view Islam? What do you approve or disprove of their beliefs? why?

 

[ladylazarus]

The Sufi are pretty neat. Timothy Leary designated them as some of the first to activate the "7th circuit" of consciousness.

 

[Buttons*]

I'm no authority on Islam. But i've always viewed it as a beautiful, dedicated, and peaceful religion. Islamic people are very kind.

 

[Green Gaia]

Any religion that inspired the beautiful poetry of Rumi, even if only in part, can't be that bad. I respect Muslims for their dedication to their religion.

 

[michel]

I'm no authority on Islam. But i've always viewed it as a beautiful, dedicated, and peaceful religion. Islamic people are very kind.

Exactly the way I see it; I couldn't say it better.:clap

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

OK, I will be the non-politically correct dissenter Infidel. I do not care much for Islam. I am currently reading a book entitled Why I am not a Muslim written under the psuedonym of ibn Waraq. Why the pseudonym? Because the author was born into the Muslim world and will be killed if his true identity is learned. I cannot endorse any religion that kills those who leave it.

I just finished reading a chapter on the life of the prophet. His life was hardly a shining example. Murder, incest, torture, stealing etc. are part and parcel of the story. He takes his adopted son's wife, then comes up with a sura excusing his behavior, makes deals with the Meccans and Medinans, then promptly backs out on the deals and comes up with suras to excuse that as well. Gets caught in bed with a handmaiden by one of his wives, then comes up with a sura to excuse this as well.

The history of Islam since the 1920's with the Muslim Brotherhood and all the terrorist organizations it has spawned does not give me much hope that this is truly a religion of peace, as has been said so many times.

The treatment of women and girls in the Muslim world is absolutely deplorable. Forcefully holding little girls down, gouging out there clitoris, cutting off their labia then sewing them up to be opened up by their husbands, with a knife on their wedding night, is not admirable behavior to me.

I am all too aware of the verse of the sword, and other such verses, and fatwa's ordering the murder of various people such as those who have left the religion, those who have spoken out against Islam, all Americans, etc. . . .

I now sit back and await the PC crowd jumping on me saying I am a biggot, and also will await a fatwa calling for my death.

B.

 

[Nehustan]

OK, I will be the non-politically correct dissenter Infidel. I do not care much for Islam. I am currently reading a book entitled Why I am not a Muslim written under the psuedonym of ibn Waraq. Why the pseudonym? Because the author was born into the Muslim world and will be killed if his true identity is learned. I cannot endorse any religion that kills those who leave it.

I just finished reading a chapter on the life of the prophet. His life was hardly a shining example. Murder, incest, torture, stealing etc. are part and parcel of the story. He takes his adopted son's wife, then comes up with a sura excusing his behavior, makes deals with the Meccans and Medinans, then promptly backs out on the deals and comes up with suras to excuse that as well. Gets caught in bed with a handmaiden by one of his wives, then comes up with a sura to excuse this as well.

The history of Islam since the 1920's with the Muslim Brotherhood and all the terrorist organizations it has spawned does not give me much hope that this is truly a religion of peace, as has been said so many times.

The treatment of women and girls in the Muslim world is absolutely deplorable. Forcefully holding little girls down, gouging out there clitoris, cutting off their labia then sewing them up to be opened up by their husbands, with a knife on their wedding night, is not admirable behavior to me.

I am all too aware of the verse of the sword, and other such verses, and fatwa's ordering the murder of various people such as those who have left the religion, those who have spoken out against Islam, all Americans, etc. . . .

I now sit back and await the PC crowd jumping on me saying I am a biggot, and also will await a fatwa calling for my death.

B.

I think you raise some fair points, and I will humbly try and address some of your issues, succeeding hopefully in part.

Let us first consider the execution of people commiting the crime of 'murtad', which would translate as apostacy. It does seem very harsh. I have often argued that one who can easily give up Islam, never understood it, and thus was by default never a muslim. As the punishment is for recanting Islam, one who was never really Muslim should be dealt with as gently as possible. The crux of the situation here is sedition. A person who fails to grasp the finer points of Islamic science is no real threat to the religion. To my mind exile is a far better punishment, and I am sure you would find that in the history of the Islamic nation the full extent of the law was not always used. The more dangerous individual is the one who uses the knowledge of Islamic science to interupt the 'mechanics' of the state, and tho' this is not 'murtad' it is far more dangerous. There have been instances of people in Islamic history that preached 'heresies' that had they kept their discussion within the Ulema (Scholars) would have been well met. It was their attempts at sedition within the state that led to their execution. Such people were not executed usually until several warnings were issued. I think if you counted the instances of capital punishment for the two crimes, the seditious would win over the 'murtad'. Not an apology more an exposition of Islamic law.

As to the the slights on the prophet of Islam, I will not venture any defence. God is best placed to know the truth and reason for what people say, and best to judge. This is not an avoidance of the 'facts', and I have read them as they have been presented to you. There are some of the usual ones missing (eplileptic, paedophile), of course I do not believe they are accurate, that is my faith.

As to Muslim displeasure post '1920' this may well in part lie with the betrayal of the Arabs post the Arab Rebellion of WWI, the mandating of their lands, and obvious other C20th political developments.

Female circumcision is oft practiced, and many Islamic people rally against it. Its is however not limited to just 'Islamic' peoples, with the practice often having predated the arrival of Islam, as oft is the case in Africa.

As to the execution of 'Murtad', I hope I have covered that above. War may be waged against enemies of the faith, and there are as you rightly point out many edicts on this. Fatwa by their nature should only be issued in accordance with Islamic law, and thus usually against muslims. There are of course exceptions to this rule. In the Islamic state, 'people of the book' were written into the concept of the state. Muslims had to pay a tax called 'Zakat' (one of the 'five pillars'). Of course with this being an obligation on Muslims, non muslim persons (followers of Jeheshuah and the Hebrew prophets) were required to pay a similar tax, and accorded the status of 'dhimmi' which means their way of life and religion were protected within the Islamic nation. Fatwa could be issued against such people, more oft than not meaning exile over execution.

I will not call you a bigot for 'calling like it is' from your own position. I may not agree, but naught would be served by expecting you to be PC. I myself, for my sins, can have a very bad and un PC mouth.

 

[RAZBERRY]

The treatment of women and girls in the Muslim world is absolutely deplorable. Forcefully holding little girls down, gouging out there clitoris, cutting off their labia then sewing them up to be opened up by their husbands, with a knife on their wedding night, is not admirable behavior to me.


B.

Good Lord. I read this and thought I would literally throw up. And according to the other poster, this is simply considered circumcission of little girls???? This is butchering girls, and ruining them for life. They will never, ever be able to enjoy the climax of any sexual experience. What does that make them other than a vat for the sexual relief of their husbands and/or a brood mare? That's not in the same ballpark as circumcission. Circumcising a male child simply enhances his sexual pleasure when he reaches that age, according to medical articles I've read.

Any culture who would condone this butchering of little girls is beyond barbaric and cruel. If this makes me politically incorrect, so be it.

 

[john313]

The treatment of women and girls in the Muslim world is absolutely deplorable. Forcefully holding little girls down, gouging out there clitoris, cutting off their labia then sewing them up to be opened up by their husbands, with a knife on their wedding night, is not admirable behavior to me.

this is something not taught by islam. perhaps you misread the initial question as this response has nothing to do with islam.
i did not read the rest of the post, but i assume it is uninformed trash as well.

peace

 

[YmirGF]

I am an unbeliever, the veil is over my eyes. What I see in Islam is not​

relevant, nor would my views be appreciated, if they were understood.​

​

:tsk:​

 

[john63]

The Sufi are pretty neat. Timothy Leary designated them as some of the first to activate the "7th circuit" of consciousness.

I think maybe Timothy Leary had a little chemical help in activating his "7th circuit of consciousness."

 

[Nehustan]

Good Lord. I read this and thought I would literally throw up. And according to the other poster, this is simply considered circumcission of little girls???? This is butchering girls, and ruining them for life. They will never, ever be able to enjoy the climax of any sexual experience. What does that make them other than a vat for the sexual relief of their husbands and/or a brood mare? That's not in the same ballpark as circumcission. Circumcising a male child simply enhances his sexual pleasure when he reaches that age, according to medical articles I've read.

Any culture who would condone this butchering of little girls is beyond barbaric and cruel. If this makes me politically incorrect, so be it.

It does not make you politically incorrect at all, and you are right it is certainly mutilation, I used the word circumcision as that is what it is called. Being married to an Arabic woman who is fully intact, and with a daughter who is the same way God made her, and my wife informs me that she knows no sisters in Islam that this has been carried out upon (tho' she is Arabic remember) the general census with the Muslims is as with you, it is a barbaric mutilation. It also has no basis in scripture, circumcision being the covenant The God took from Abraham, and subsequently his sons (and by extension his inheritors).

 

[RAZBERRY]

It does not make you politically incorrect at all, and you are right it is certainly mutilation, I used the word circumcision as that is what it is called. Being married to an Arabic woman who is fully intact, and with a daughter who is the same way God made her, and my wife informs me that she knows no sisters in Islam that this has been carried out upon (tho' she is Arabic remember) the general census with the Muslims is as with you, it is a barbaric mutilation. It also has no basis in scripture, circumcision being the covenant The God took from Abraham, and subsequently his sons (and by extension his inheritors).

So it's not all that common? Thank God. I had never heard of this female circumcision before. I couldn't get to sleep last night thinking of this. It's unbelievable that it's done at all anywhere, anytime. What is the purpose of this practice? I understand the "sewing up" part, although it is still a horrid mutilation--to insure virginity for untrusting, fragile egos. But I'm completely at a loss regarding "gouging out the clitoris". What purpose could that serve other than plain and simple cruelty?

 

[Popeyesays]

OK, I will be the non-politically correct dissenter Infidel. I do not care much for Islam. I am currently reading a book entitled Why I am not a Muslim written under the psuedonym of ibn Waraq. Why the pseudonym? Because the author was born into the Muslim world and will be killed if his true identity is learned. I cannot endorse any religion that kills those who leave it. .

A fatwa can order death it must be signed by several Islamic judges. Fatwas can be over-ridden, commuted. But as long as your pseudonymed author stays out of Islamic countries he has nothing to worry about. This is an example of fundamentalists terrorizing their flocks - Pat Roberts does the same thing, and Jerry Fallwell.

I just finished reading a chapter on the life of the prophet. His life was hardly a shining example. Murder, incest, torture, stealing etc. are part and parcel of the story. He takes his adopted son's wife, then comes up with a sura excusing his behavior, makes deals with the Meccans and Medinans, then promptly backs out on the deals and comes up with suras to excuse that as well. Gets caught in bed with a handmaiden by one of his wives, then comes up with a sura to excuse this as well. .

Perhaps you might read a better balanced book before deciding an opinion? Or are you just cherry-picking for material that agrees with your prejudice? Try Muhammed and the Course of Islam, its written by a non-Muslim who grew up in the Muslim world in a religion regularly associated with apostasy by muslim fundamentalists and routinely persecuted to this day, yet he recognizes the essential goodness of the message of Islam, even though he has been the subject of persecution by misguided muslims for all of his life. He passed away in exile about six years ago - Hasan M. Balyuzi.

The treatment of women and girls in the Muslim world is absolutely deplorable. Forcefully holding little girls down, gouging out there clitoris, cutting off their labia then sewing them up to be opened up by their husbands, with a knife on their wedding night, is not admirable behavior to me. ..

Worry, but until the laws of Islam women had absolutely NO rights and cut be summarily killed by their husbands with no rights before the law. Look at the degree of improvement over what came before to measure the effects of Muhammed. As to femal circumcision it is a barbarous practice, but it is actually a North African tradition from BEFORE Islam, not an Islamic one.

I am all too aware of the verse of the sword, and other such verses, and fatwa's ordering the murder of various people such as those who have left the religion, those who have spoken out against Islam, all Americans, etc. . .

I now sit back and await the PC crowd jumping on me saying I am a biggot, and also will await a fatwa calling for my death.

B.

Hey, if you have a martyr complex, choose better ground to defend.

Regards,
Scott

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

So it's not all that common? Thank God. I had never heard of this female circumcision before. I couldn't get to sleep last night thinking of this. It's unbelievable that it's done at all anywhere, anytime. What is the purpose of this practice? I understand the "sewing up" part, although it is still a horrid mutilation--to insure virginity for untrusting, fragile egos. But I'm completely at a loss regarding "gouging out the clitoris". What purpose could that serve other than plain and simple cruelty?

It is quite common, actually, in North Africa. If you have the stomach for it Google the term "female circumsion". Ghastly and horrendous.

To those suggesting I read other texts regarding Islam, I have, and I do. I merely was quoting from what I am currently reading for the purposes of answering the question posed to begin this thread.

And how comforting for ibn Warraq, whoever he may actually be, that he is safe as long as he stays out of Muslim countries. Unless of course his identity is discovered and he gets the same treatment that Theo Van Gogh got. You remember him? The Dutch film maker murdered by a fundamentalist after Theo made a movie which was deemed to be insulting towards Islam in the way that women are treated.

His murderer stabbed him many many times and attempted to cut his head off in the street. At the trial, when the murdering ____________ gave his statement, he turned to Theo's mother, who was obviously greiving over the death of her son and told her that he was glad he killed him, would do it again, and felt no compassion toward the mother at all, because he believed she was an infidel. And this happened in Holland!!! Not Afghanistan. There is nowhere that ibn Warraq is safe. Just as there is nowhere that Salmon Rushdie is safe. How can you excuse this?

B.

 

[ladylazarus]

I think maybe Timothy Leary had a little chemical help in activating his "7th circuit of consciousness."

...a little?

 

[Smoke]

My view of Islam is exactly the same as my view of Christianity and Judaism. That is, I can respect some aspects of it, but its adherents have a propensity for intolerance and violence that troubles me. I can't stress strongly enough that I mean all three Abrahamic religions, and not just Islam.

 

[jewscout]

A cousin i should try to talk to more often but i never get around to.

 

[Nehustan]

A cousin i should try to talk to more often but i never get around to.

The sons of Ismael (i.e the tribes of Bacca) are the cousins of the sons of Issac. If you never get around to talking with them, pick just one, and tho' he may not be here today in body, the message he recieved is. So do not talk with your cousins if this talk is hard, rather 'listen' to the most noble from within them, then....time will tell.....

 

[Popeyesays]

His murderer stabbed him many many times and attempted to cut his head off in the street. At the trial, when the murdering ____________ gave his statement, he turned to Theo's mother, who was obviously greiving over the death of her son and told her that he was glad he killed him, would do it again, and felt no compassion toward the mother at all, because he believed she was an infidel. And this happened in Holland!!! Not Afghanistan. There is nowhere that ibn Warraq is safe. Just as there is nowhere that Salmon Rushdie is safe. How can you excuse this?

B.

I don't excuse it. Neither do I excuse Jewish settlers in Palestine gunning down Palestinians, or Christians bombing women's clinics or executing with a sawed of shotfun doctors who perform D&C's.

Regards,
Scott