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How do you stop arguing with fundamentalists? Should you?

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I remember being a kid first stumbling upon yahoo answers, and slap fighting with the creationists and all that. I used to let myself get stressed over it, frustrated that people just don't listen, etc. Then I just kind of gave up, not even sure what happened. Now I find myself in the same position with atheism and materialism. Sometimes no matter how much logic and evidence you shove in someone's face they still simply won't listen. Again I find myself angry and frustrated, and I want to know how to just let it go.

But then, is letting it go right? Sure you can't change the mind of a fundamentalist denying reason and evidence, but does that mean you just accept it? What about onlookers? What about a simple responsibility to challenge fundamentalism?

Any tips or thoughts?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I remember being a kid first stumbling upon yahoo answers, and slap fighting with the creationists and all that. I used to let myself get stressed over it, frustrated that people just don't listen, etc. Then I just kind of gave up, not even sure what happened. Now I find myself in the same position with atheism and materialism. Sometimes no matter how much logic and evidence you shove in someone's face they still simply won't listen. Again I find myself angry and frustrated, and I want to know how to just let it go.

But then, is letting it go right? Sure you can't change the mind of a fundamentalist denying reason and evidence, but does that mean you just accept it? What about onlookers? What about a simple responsibility to challenge fundamentalism?

Any tips or thoughts?
Consider the possibility that you're the one who's the fundamentalist these days.

Edit: though my reply to you probably speaks to your point. Despite your tendency to completely reject logic and reason, to use questionable tactics, and to plug your ears and shout "axiom! Axiom!" whenever your assumptions are questioned, I still replied.

I think you're quite possibly beyond hope, but I still replied. I'm not sure why.
 
I remember being a kid first stumbling upon yahoo answers, and slap fighting with the creationists and all that. I used to let myself get stressed over it, frustrated that people just don't listen, etc. Then I just kind of gave up, not even sure what happened. Now I find myself in the same position with atheism and materialism. Sometimes no matter how much logic and evidence you shove in someone's face they still simply won't listen. Again I find myself angry and frustrated, and I want to know how to just let it go.

But then, is letting it go right? Sure you can't change the mind of a fundamentalist denying reason and evidence, but does that mean you just accept it? What about onlookers? What about a simple responsibility to challenge fundamentalism?

Any tips or thoughts?
I am seriously beginning to think you are actually a really clever satirist. It's certainly more favourable than the alternative, and I've been giving optimism a go lately.

:)
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Consider the possibility that you're the one who's the fundamentalist these days.

Edit: though my reply to you probably speaks to your point. Despite your tendency to completely reject logic and reason, to use questionable tactics, and to plug your ears and shout "axiom! Axiom!" whenever your assumptions are questioned, I still replied.

I think you're quite possibly beyond hope, but I still replied. I'm not sure why.

I've provided both reason and evidence, and you were unable to show that self existence is not axiomatic. So share it or shut up already.
 

Ahanit

Active Member
My husband has the same Prob... He allways argue with people who have no interest in Arguments.... This ist waste of time...

What brings it to you to Argue with those people?
Nothing else than frustration and Angryness
Are you able to effect something?
NO

So why wasting time with those people?

If they are friends I ignore this discussions and take them like they are. I think my Part about.
If they are anyone else, I take them at my ignore list, because I have no time to waste with unnecessary Discussions.
I have my own tasks for my life, If they have no interest in arguments or truth or what ever, it's their Problem. The awakening will come and the illusion will burn earlier or later. I know on what side of the mirror I am
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I remember being a kid first stumbling upon yahoo answers, and slap fighting with the creationists and all that. I used to let myself get stressed over it, frustrated that people just don't listen, etc. Then I just kind of gave up, not even sure what happened. Now I find myself in the same position with atheism and materialism. Sometimes no matter how much logic and evidence you shove in someone's face they still simply won't listen. Again I find myself angry and frustrated, and I want to know how to just let it go.

But then, is letting it go right? Sure you can't change the mind of a fundamentalist denying reason and evidence, but does that mean you just accept it? What about onlookers? What about a simple responsibility to challenge fundamentalism?

Any tips or thoughts?

If you call evidence comparing brains to radio stations tuned to some cosmic consciousness or alter ego, then...well. I would say that a literal interpretation of Adam and Eve is more plausible.

Ciao

- viole
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
Why is this restricted to fundamentalist? No one person is immune from this. We all have things that direct our psyche in certain directions and impede us to a certain extent.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
If you call evidence comparing brains to radio stations tuned to some cosmic consciousness or alter ego, then...well. I would say that a literal interpretation of Adam and Eve is more plausible.

Ciao

- viole

Pretty easy to defeat a position when you ignore everything but one metaphor, is it?
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
My husband has the same Prob... He allways argue with people who have no interest in Arguments.... This ist waste of time...

What brings it to you to Argue with those people?
Nothing else than frustration and Angryness
Are you able to effect something?
NO

So why wasting time with those people?

If they are friends I ignore this discussions and take them like they are. I think my Part about.
If they are anyone else, I take them at my ignore list, because I have no time to waste with unnecessary Discussions.
I have my own tasks for my life, If they have no interest in arguments or truth or what ever, it's their Problem. The awakening will come and the illusion will burn earlier or later. I know on what side of the mirror I am


True. Knowing me I should write one last compilation paper on the topic and move on.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I remember being a kid first stumbling upon yahoo answers, and slap fighting with the creationists and all that. I used to let myself get stressed over it, frustrated that people just don't listen, etc. Then I just kind of gave up, not even sure what happened. Now I find myself in the same position with atheism and materialism. Sometimes no matter how much logic and evidence you shove in someone's face they still simply won't listen. Again I find myself angry and frustrated, and I want to know how to just let it go.

From what you say here, it sounds like you have a need to be right. It seems to extend beyond just a need to be right, and into a need to prove to everyone else that you are right, and that they are wrong. Does this sound correct to you? Related to this, it also sounds like you have a need to be set; you feel a need to know what's what, to have the answer, and don't like ambiguity. Does this sound like you too? To frame this another way, it sounds like you have this concrete schema about how the world works, you're sure that it is right, and everyone else should see that it is right too. Hate to say it, but @9-10ths_Penguin has a point in calling this a fundamentalist mentality.


But then, is letting it go right? Sure you can't change the mind of a fundamentalist denying reason and evidence, but does that mean you just accept it? What about onlookers? What about a simple responsibility to challenge fundamentalism?

Why do you care what other people think and do? Why is it your responsibility to change their minds? Why can't you leave them to their own business, and mind your own instead?


Any tips or thoughts?

Well, put in the simplest way, mind your own business. If you prefer being set in your ways with concrete schemas about how the world works, then you can leave others to their perspectives rather than wasting your time and energy fussing about what others are doing. There's too much for you to be doing to mess with that, right? If there's a direct and mortal conflict, that's one thing, but for the most part, what others do doesn't affect you that much. If you really want to crusade for a cause, be mindful of what that takes out of you and pick your causes carefully.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Ah, so an interest on
From what you say here, it sounds like you have a need to be right. It seems to extend beyond just a need to be right, and into a need to prove to everyone else that you are right, and that they are wrong. Does this sound correct to you? Related to this, it also sounds like you have a need to be set; you feel a need to know what's what, to have the answer, and don't like ambiguity. Does this sound like you too? To frame this another way, it sounds like you have this concrete schema about how the world works, you're sure that it is right, and everyone else should see that it is right too. Hate to say it, but @9-10ths_Penguin has a point in calling this a fundamentalist mentality.



Why do you care what other people think and do? Why is it your responsibility to change their minds? Why can't you leave them to their own business, and mind your own instead?




Well, put in the simplest way, mind your own business. If you prefer being set in your ways with concrete schemas about how the world works, then you can leave others to their perspectives rather than wasting your time and energy fussing about what others are doing. There's too much for you to be doing to mess with that, right? If there's a direct and mortal conflict, that's one thing, but for the most part, what others do doesn't affect you that much. If you really want to crusade for a cause, be mindful of what that takes out of you and pick your causes carefully.

Lol I've evolved my position more than almost any member here. Sorry for caring about truth and using reason and evidence to get there!
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
True. Knowing me I should write one last compilation paper on the topic and move on.

The thread topic is about your alleged evidence that materialism is false. And that we are too stubborn to see it.

So, where is your evidence? You mean things like Lucy and property dualism? :)

Ciao

- viole
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I remember being a kid first stumbling upon yahoo answers, and slap fighting with the creationists and all that. I used to let myself get stressed over it, frustrated that people just don't listen, etc. Then I just kind of gave up, not even sure what happened. Now I find myself in the same position with atheism and materialism. Sometimes no matter how much logic and evidence you shove in someone's face they still simply won't listen. Again I find myself angry and frustrated, and I want to know how to just let it go.

But then, is letting it go right? Sure you can't change the mind of a fundamentalist denying reason and evidence, but does that mean you just accept it? What about onlookers? What about a simple responsibility to challenge fundamentalism?

Any tips or thoughts?
For me, it's a mood thingy. Most of the time, I'll just smile, raise my arm as if checking my non-existent watch and exclaim, "My goodness. Look at the time. Things to do!"
As I get older I fully realize that my time here is limited, especially after the sudden death of my mom. That brought the point home. I remain keenly aware of my own confirmation bias and am continually perplexed by others who are oblivious to the nature of that foible. You cannot out shout a fence post, though you can try. In light of what someone said about learning from others, I'm always looking for that next tidbit that gets me racing off in some new, unexpected, direction. To be fair, I don't learn much from others these days, but they do often serve as springboards while my subconscious nibbles at their comments. Usually, I find myself stripping down their arguments, after the fact, and laying those arguments bare. In this way, it helps me to refine my understanding of the human condition. It's a life long project and very much an art form.

On the forums I'll talk about pretty much anything whereas in real life I'm far more guarded with my time and endeavors. I choose my arguments carefully and don't get into long winded explanations with people who do not understand. If anything, in real life, I have found that rather than being appreciative that you have "opened their eyes" most folks are quite resentful that you felt a need to "school" them.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
From what you say here, it sounds like you have a need to be right. It seems to extend beyond just a need to be right, and into a need to prove to everyone else that you are right, and that they are wrong.
What's wrong with wanting to be right? What's wrong with wanting to combat ignorance? There are obviously a lot of things that are uncertain, or even matters of opinion, but there are also plenty of things that we know. If some-one believes, for example, that the earth was created 6000 years ago with the fossils in place, they they are stupid and irrational, and they should not go unchallenged.

Why do you care what other people think and do?
If some-one doesn't care what others think, why would they join this board?
 
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