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How do you love God?

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Aug 12, 2017.

  1. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    This thread is directed toward Christians and Muslims. My question is simple: How can you possibly love and worship a god who tortures unbelievers for eternity? Even if such a god existed (which I highly highly doubt), I could never love it, knowing that it will end up torturing many of my loved ones forever. I firmly believe that there are only two possibilities if you worship such a god. You are either 1) so petrified by your fear of it (God) that you convince yourself that you love it and worship it for fear that it turns on you, or 2) you are a clinical psychopath. Now, I know many religious people who believe in hell, and I know that they are genuinely good people, and certainly not psychopaths. Therefore, the only conceivable possibility in my mind is that they are so petrified of their god that they have deluded themselves into thinking they love it for fear that it punishes them.
     
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  2. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah No longer here

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    I am speaking as a former Christian and former hardcore Muslim. As a Christian I never thought about it and asserted that it was other people who were rejecting the "obvious fact that only Jesus is real and he loves us," I was obviously young at the time and had no idea there were people who never even heard of Jesus. When I got older and was a Muslim right before my teenage years I accepted a common Islamic notion that anybody an go to Jahannam including Muslims. Islam does not have the teaching that because somebody is saved they are guaranteed heaven or hell. It simply doesn't exist in the religion.

    Even Osama may have to burn a bit before he enters heaven.
     
  3. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Et Ducit Mundum Per Lucem
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    Honestly, sometimes I like the descriptions of hell, such as in the Qur'an, because I'm a misanthrope.

    Now you can certainly look at hell in a plethora of other ways. It doesn't have to be viewed as a flaming torture dungeon. It can be temporary, a place of penitence and purification, self-imposed and so on.
     
  4. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    No I can't love a god who would torture people forever. Fortunately, I believe God doesn't do that. The God I love is more merciful than I am and I would not have anyone tortured for all eternity. I would have them purified.

    Fire in Scripture is sometimes used for purification. God says he will purify his people as gold is purified in fire. That purification may include wailing and gnashing of teeth but not forever. I wouldn't want adolf hitler tortured forever. That was a miserable, angry, tortured, confused man as it was. I'd rather see him purged of his defects in purgatory.
     
  5. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah No longer here

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    I personally believe that fear of god is more beneficial than love, I honestly cannot even fathom a loving god who is interested in our lives. We call god "our lord" for a reason in the same since we call kings lords. It is a matter of hierarchy and subservience.

    I never regard myself as a child of god in the fatherly sense but I will always be his servant/slave. Gods mold us and form us into what we wish to become and this is why gods are the logical extension of hierarchy at its most extreme state.

    I always viewed hell as just despite my theistic inclinations. A way of performing wudu as I would say when I was a Muslim. A way of purging before worship of one's lord. Divine serfdom you may call it :D
     
  6. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Et Ducit Mundum Per Lucem
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    Well, of course you are a sadist and fascist of a sort so I would expect that of you. Lol. :p

    God as Father is a very Christian notion. I've seen Muslims snap at people on here for calling God "Father". Of course, some people in Christianity are called slaves of God, like St. Paul. There's also the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, which is a hardline Catholic group.

    I don't really see God as wanting fear from His creation but that may have to do with upbringing or personal disposition. That is not how He reveals Himself to me, even though I do have masochistic tendencies, weirdly. I just like getting on my knees, I guess.
     
  7. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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  8. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah No longer here

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    Hey, You are only a fascist if you say Hitler's name twice like most Hitler loving fasci . . . GODDAMMIT! :mad:

    I recall Ahmed Deedat getting on Christians about this. He loved to tease Catholics especially, it was so funny.
    By fear I mean a very rational fear in that you are fearful of displeasing god/s and wish to perfect your life through him/her instead of wasting it on materialism. I find the fear of one should have toward god is the same fear they should hold toward a hurricane. It is only something to cower toward if you build your house square instead of round like smart people.

    . . . incase you did not know but dome structures are tornado proof do to their lack of flat surfaces.

    Prayer is the epitome of masochism, I still pray like a Muslim because of this. In Islam you grovel at the feet of Allah which has always stuck with me. Prayer overall is a very erotic action that employs the pouring out of one's heart to god and the surrender of one's own autonomy to something greater then themselves in every conceivable way.

    To pray is to admit your worthlessness basically
     
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  9. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Et Ducit Mundum Per Lucem
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    I agree with your definition of fear and idea of prayer there. You're very good at writing about this stuff. Should be a theologian. :p
     
  10. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah No longer here

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    I have heavily considered it before, greatly. The only issue is I do not think I can undo what Wicca has done to the Pagan community. I think now is the greatest time for people like me who practice what they preach to be more vocal and denounce fluffy bunnies in the pagan community
     
  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Et Ducit Mundum Per Lucem
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    Be prepared for the same reception from them that you got from the atheists. Lol.
     
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  12. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah No longer here

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    I am well aware. It is funny how they change the definition of atheism and pagan without ever saying so. I think it is a matter of convenience. This is why I admire Catholics who are hostile toward the new pope, they have no problems criticizing their religion which means they are not blindly following it.

    I do not even have to agree with them but the mere notion that people are not afraid of self examination is something I admire. I think I need to make a thread so I can rant about my own political groups that I identify as.
     
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  13. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    If you like the idea of hell (especially the Qur'an's version) I think you should seek some psychological help. Just honest advice.
     
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  14. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    Sounds like you view your religion as some sort of cosmic 50 Shades of Gray. Do you have the hots for Allah?
     
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  15. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah No longer here

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    I cannot say I worship Allah anymore as I promised myself I could never go back to Islam, but I do worship his wife Allat :D

    Also to any of us BDSM enthusiast, 50 Shades of Grey is a dirty slur against us. Keep the Bible and Qur'an but that damn so called "erotic" book must burn :mad:.
     
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  16. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah No longer here

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    Sorry I forgot to make a serious comment :D.

    My view on this matter is mostly stemming from some understanding of Buddhism and my personal outlook on life. I obviously do not wake up smelling roses every morning, I read the obituary to make me happy when I wake up. I just cross my fingers and say "please be Bieber, please be Bieber."

    The point I am making is that I do not view any god as being capable of lifting man from his own suffering and if anything the gods intended for us to suffer. I unlike the Buddhists do not think man can escape it but merely make peace with it and not be burdened by it. If he can worship the gods in his suffering, and hold utmost love in his heart knowing that all that awaits man is oblivion then to me that is somebody who has grasped reality.

    I do not look upon religion as a security blankets, nor do I hold onto it in hopes of saving my soul. All men's souls are damned and when we die the more damned it is.

    I should also add that this is the outlook of Middle Eastern polytheists. This concept of heaven and hell is something of Jews under Greek rule to lift their misery out of darkness and make it splendor in the light. This is why they are fools, now look now and you rarely see Jew utter heaven. It is only the Christians and Muslims worried by this.
     
  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Active Member

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    First of all, God does not torture no one for eternity, God gives everyone the chance to Repent and turn to him.Its your choice what you do.
    I hold to love God, not out fear, but out of love for him.
    Do you love your mother and father out of fear or do you love them for who they are your mother and father.

    God being my Heavenly Father,So I love him for that and No other reason.

    Look let's for say a person comes to beat on you,What will you do, just stand there while they beat on you or do you hit back. Common sense says you will hit back.

    But yet you think that you can deny God and curse God and all the while God is to just stand there and do nothing.

    That is not how it works. What goes around comes around, just remember that.

    You first came out against God, Now you gave God every right to be against you.

    It's no more than someone comes out against you to hit on you first. Now they gave you every right to go against them.

    What's fair is fair. What goes around comes around.
     
  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Active Member

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    What is hell, To be cast into hell, is to be cast back into nonexistence.as you haved never ever existed.
    All traces of you will be erased from memory, that even the Almighty God will not have no memory of you, that you ever existed before.
    This why Jesus said, fear them not, who are able to destroy the body, But fear him, who is able to destroy both the body and soul in hell.
    Therefore to be cast into hell, your soul will be destroyed in hell, that is you will be cast into nonexistence. As you have never ever existed before. This is the hell that people are facing.
     
  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I am an atheist Hindu. I love my Gods and goddesses as characters of my mythology.
     
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