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How do you know that your holy scriptures are from God?!

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
What about the things that have been edited in the bible, and the books that have been abandoned?
If you look at it not as "editing" the Bible, but "correcting" it as they learn more about the original texts and how best to translate them, and not as "abandoning" books but "restoring" the Bible to its original form by removing books that were never intended by God to be included, I think you'll be closer to the normal Christian take on the issue.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
According to scripture,the Holy Spirit will come and convict a man of sin, which means missing God's mark , of righteousness,because man's self righteousness is but filthy rags in his sight and of Judgement because he has appointed a day in which he will judge man according to his standard of righteousness, not man's
Jhn 16:7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
And when he is come, he will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
There is only one way to God according to scripture, that is through Jesus Christ
God does not give his Holy Spirit to just anyone ,although he draws all men to himself through the power of the Holy Spirit, one must beleive and recieve his substitutionary covering of sin or atonement.in oder to receive this gift of the Holy Spirit
Man does not arrogantly say,I will go to God" but they can only do so if the spirit of God draws him
Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The Holy Ghost is for everyone ,who beleives in ,that means trusts in ,relies on ,has confidence in Jesus Christ as the Son Of God and Savior of this world.
Jhn 14:26But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

When a man receives the Holy Spirit ,he comes to dwell in and with the beleiver, 2 very different things yet part of the same package, but the world knows him not because they can't see him and therefore can't know him until they first receive Christ
Jhn 14:16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

A man knows when the Holy Spirit begins to dwell in him ,but this is the key the world can't and / or won't grasp until they receive Christ
Rom 8:9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

You see, recieving the Holy Spirit does not come about by mere intellectual accent or by just saying, I beleive in Jesus ,for the bible says even the devil beleives and shutters,you must receive Christ as Lord and then the Holy Spirit seals you and you receive that assurance that you are born of God, it is a supernatural spiritual birth from God and not some mystical form of impersonal spiritualism.
Because their are spirits out there that are certainly not from God and in 1 John he tells how to discern the spirit of truth and the spirit of error
Eph 1:13In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


That power and presence of God in a born again ,that is born from above beleiver is the Holy Spirit's work
Jhn 3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Think really hard, roli. The reason that you believe that the Bible is the Word of God is that the Bible tells you to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit says it is. See the problem there?
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
Think really hard, roli. The reason that you believe that the Bible is the Word of God is that the Bible tells you to be guided by the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit says it is. See the problem there?

It's interesting your trying to tell me the reason why I beleive.
My friend , the problem is not with me concerning God's word, but your ignorance of the power and the reality of the presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer .
Could you open your mind enough to see that actually being a possibility.

Many skeptics speak against an experience a Christian has with God through the Holy Spirit as if they have some higher knowledge.
This Christian expereince is not based on some intellectual ascent to higher reasoning but the reality of the person,purpose and presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer
As difficult as that is to comprehend and accept, you can't rule it out unless you have enetered into a Holy Ghost expereince, you are'nt even qualified to discuss it.


As often as I hear this line of reasoning from atheists or others attempting to question,ridicule ,mock the truth and power of the scriptures among other things of God ,especially questioning the expereince a born again believer receives through the Holy Spirit, I am reminded of the certainity of what it is I and every other born again beleiever have recieved from God.

I was'nt always a christian my friend, if this was all about just a belief in a book and claiming a christian title, I would have kicked this relgion to the curb long ago.
What a futile exsistence spending one's life trying to convince and defend, not only yourself through ritualistic practices and certain beliefs, but others that your religion is truth.


The truth is, if it were'nt for the empowering ,indwelling manifestation of the power of the Holy Spirit in my spirit man that confirms the scriptures, heaven,judgment ,sin I would be serving a relgion
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Don't you think that this might imply that God is not perfect?
No. It implies that humans are imperfect. Paul says that "now we see in part and we know in part." However, God uses God's human agent to accomplish God's purposes.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Would you know who Jesus really was if people didn't tell you about it "based on the bible"?
Christianity spread rapidly by word of mouth, without the Bible for about 200 years...
Do you think it's wise to take the part we want from any holy book and throw the rest which might conflict with our views about the author of that holy book or the one some men ascribe these holy books to?
Weighing the veracity of what has been written is the only responsible course of acction.
Do you think God would cause men to write different things to different people?
Absolutely.
Or God said something universla but human beings interpret it on their own way?
Bingo!
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
It's interesting your trying to tell me the reason why I beleive.
No, that's the reason YOU gave for believing.

My friend , the problem is not with me concerning God's word, but your ignorance of the power and the reality of the presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer .
Could you open your mind enough to see that actually being a possibility.
Done that.

Many skeptics speak against an experience a Christian has with God through the Holy Spirit as if they have some higher knowledge.
Not at all. I think the same knowledge is available to all of us.
This Christian expereince is not based on some intellectual ascent to higher reasoning but the reality of the person,purpose and presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer
As difficult as that is to comprehend and accept, you can't rule it out unless you have enetered into a Holy Ghost expereince, you are'nt even qualified to discuss it.
Oh, O.K. I better shut up then. Bye.

I was'nt always a christian my friend, if this was all about just a belief in a book and claiming a christian title, I would have kicked this relgion to the curb long ago.
What a futile exsistence spending one's life trying to convince and defend, not only yourself through ritualistic practices and certain beliefs, but others that your religion is truth.
What makes you think I'm your friend? I think you should stop then, O.K.?
 

McBell

Resident Sourpuss
Everything I believe goes through transitions and adaptations as new information is assimilated. Though, there are those moments of epiphany when it seems that everything clicks together and there may be--may be--an outside force working through me.
This is pretty much it for me as well.

Many skeptics speak against an experience a Christian has with God through the Holy Spirit as if they have some higher knowledge.
This Christian expereince is not based on some intellectual ascent to higher reasoning but the reality of the person,purpose and presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer
As difficult as that is to comprehend and accept, you can't rule it out unless you have enetered into a Holy Ghost expereince, you are'nt even qualified to discuss it.
Nice out.
However, what of those who have been there and left because they disagreed with it?

As often as I hear this line of reasoning from atheists or others attempting to question,ridicule ,mock the truth and power of the scriptures among other things of God ,especially questioning the expereince a born again believer receives through the Holy Spirit, I am reminded of the certainity of what it is I and every other born again beleiever have recieved from God.
I can see that quite clearly.
Though i would call it something else...

I was'nt always a christian my friend, if this was all about just a belief in a book and claiming a christian title, I would have kicked this relgion to the curb long ago.
What a futile exsistence spending one's life trying to convince and defend, not only yourself through ritualistic practices and certain beliefs, but others that your religion is truth.
Aww, but the problem lies with your claiming it to be the ONLY truth and expecting others to merely take your word for it.
Rather difficult to convince those who are not a part of your choir to accept what you say when you are so busy presenting irrational/illogical excuses to explain why they disagree.

Just because you cannot/willnot understand how some one who understands can disagree, does not mean that they can/do not understand.


The truth is, if it were'nt for the empowering ,indwelling manifestation of the power of the Holy Spirit in my spirit man that confirms the scriptures, heaven,judgment ,sin I would be serving a religion
LOL
I find it rather comical to hear people of religion claiming that their particular religion is not a religion.

If you were to call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
Four.
Calling a tail a leg does not make the tail a leg.

And of course, others might join the discussuin as well, but i didn't want for someone to come and say that their holy books are not from God, got my point? ;)

So? Any thoughts?
My question is why do those who are convinced that their particular holy words are from God seem to think that by default no other holy words could come from God?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I get ya.... but wanted to add one thing about scripture in general.... the contention that any particular work is the actually the word of God is important and all, but I think everyone needs to remember that a BOOK CAN NOT TEACH. It is human understanding of a particular text that is much more relevant ---- God can write a book, a play, a song, a cartoon, whatever.... but if a human being does not understand the meaning it does not really matter who/what wrote it.

I agree with you, but it wouldn't matter even more if the scripture wasn't from God in the first place.

Well, like I say I thiink God can use anything. God being infinite, the ways He expresses Himself through each of us and our realities would also be infinite.

At the same time I think it's a Universal; there is only one truth, but it's manifestations and ways of expressioning itself are infinite.

I think the true Word (for lack of a better word :p) of God is something inside ourselves that recognizes truth in all other things.

Why this "Truth" differ from a heart to another?

Yes there is it Must fundamentally describe God without
attributing to Him any qualities of the creation,
it Must be tolerent to other faiths,
it Must not be racist, it Has to be intact the
way it was revealed, it Must provide solutions to all
human problems, it must provide safety and security to man,
it Must be concistant with previous prophets, its gotta give
comfort and satisfaction to the human heart, there cannot be any contradictions.

Indeed brother. Well said. :)

I don't believe I would recognize the world I would be in if the bible did not exist.

And you never have any thought to question it's authority for instance?

Can the roar of the sea or the thunder of the heavens be silenced?

Never. :) Nevertheless, you wouldn't know the source of this sound. Is it the thunder on its own or someone is causing it. Got my point?
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you look at it not as "editing" the Bible, but "correcting" it as they learn more about the original texts and how best to translate them, and not as "abandoning" books but "restoring" the Bible to its original form by removing books that were never intended by God to be included, I think you'll be closer to the normal Christian take on the issue.

So they keep correcting each other forever?

How do you know who is correcting and who is abandoning?

Does "the way you look at it" changes facts or you just want to believe what you *should* believe in?

No. It implies that humans are imperfect. Paul says that "now we see in part and we know in part." However, God uses God's human agent to accomplish God's purposes.

Don't you think that would have used more perfect and efficient ways to convay his message than using imperfect people?

Imperfect people might convay imperfect message and people will start doubting the perfection of the Lord.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
My question is why do those who are convinced that their particular holy words are from God seem to think that by default no other holy words could come from God?

Well, it depends. Maybe their particular scripture assert that there is no more holy books to come to the world except which have been sent already. :shrug:
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Don't you think that would have used more perfect and efficient ways to convay his message than using imperfect people?

Imperfect people might convay imperfect message and people will start doubting the perfection of the Lord.
How are human beings able to ascribe glory to God in God's perfection, if we were perfect? We'd just ascribe glory to ourselves. God uses imperfect people because God desires to interact with us intimately, not in spite of our imperfection, but because of our imperfection. I can think of no more perfect way to impart grace than through the lifting up of flawed human beings. Seems pretty efficient to me. Otherwise, we're just talking about grace, and not participating in it.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have no problem of God using human to convey his message, but to write it themselves using their own interpretations, that's totally something else!
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I have no problem of God using human to convey his message, but to write it themselves using their own interpretations, that's totally something else!
Why? God interacts intimately with us. That means that God works as well through our interpretational lenses as through any other method.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So they keep correcting each other forever?
If they believe the previous versions to be wrong in some way, or not as accurate or faithful to the original as they can be, then yes.

How do you know who is correcting and who is abandoning?
They tell you. There are many groups who have produced Bible versions, and at least the more modern ones go into fairly high detail about what original source material they used, how they interpreted various passages, and why.

There are many versions of the Bible in existence, and each church (and to a certain extent, each believer) is free to choose which one to use. The Catholics have the Vulgate. Many Protestant denominations use the King James Version. Others don't specify a Bible version and leave the decision of which one (or which ones) to use up to each member.

Separate to this are Bibles for special purposes. The Contemporary English Version, for example, puts the Bible in more easy-to-understand language with the hope that while it not may be word-for-word exact as other versions, the fact that it is more easily understood will make it more effective at communicating the messages in the Bible.

Does "the way you look at it" changes facts or you just want to believe what you *should* believe in?

I would hope that each version is translated by people who are genuinely concerned with creating a version of the Bible that's most true to the original material, and that the differences stem from things like new discoveries of ancient Bible copies between versions, or from scholarly debates on the precise meaning of Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew phrases, but I have a feeling that other motivations have slipped in and helped form the Bible we have today. However, this problem is common to any religion that relies on ancient writings, not just Christianity: how do you know the motivations of the people that first put pen to paper?

Imperfect people might convay imperfect message and people will start doubting the perfection of the Lord.
However, an imperfect copy of a perfect message would not do this. Failing to fix those imperfections as they become apparent might cause people to start doubting the church, though.
 

roli

Born Again,Spirit Filled
Nice out.
However, what of those who have been there and left because they disagreed with it?
But what did you expereince , a form of godliness without expereincing the power and demonstration of God.
You may have only had a relgion of dogma ,doctrine and rules,but did you receive the Holy Spirit ,the power and demonstration of God's power that converts ,which again is the Holy Spirit


Aww, but the problem lies with your claiming it to be the ONLY truth and expecting others to merely take your word for it.
I'm sorry ,but I will mention to others it is the truth, but it is up to God to reveal it as the only truth to those who come to him in repentance and brokenness.
Paul says that in Cor
1Cr 2:4 And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
But human rationale,pride ,arroagnce and ego have always come between God and man and always will.
It seems in my expereince talking with people on the street or hospitals ,that many tend to forsake their preconcieved notions and doubts when life has struck them or those close to them with tradgedy ,sickness,death etc.

If any so called Christians try to convert or convince you by mere logic that God is truth ,he is a fool, it is their responsibility to declare it as truth , and God's to reveal it as truth.
Skeptics often make it seem like it's truth because we say it is .
At least with me, I just present it and if the person chooses to explore it and call on and receive Christ ,his Holy Spirit wil reveal the truth BY POWER AND DEMONSTRATION

Rather difficult to convince those who are not a part of your choir to accept what you say when you are so busy presenting irrational/illogical excuses to explain why they disagree.

As in Jesus day ,so it is today, that many claims are made as to the reality of a God ,judgment day ,sin ,salvation etc ,people either accept it or reject it, what you do with the information and knowledge you receive everyday from all aspects of life,you will be responsible for,not the one who delivered it.



I find it rather comical to hear people of religion claiming that their particular religion is not a religion.
That is because you don't assimilate the relationship to God that a born again Christian has with God ,compared to the religious people today and in Jesus' day who had merely an external pious form of Godliness through their self imposed practices and traditional practices,but never connected with God through his spirit
For that Jesus, exposed them and said ,depart from me, I never knew you.
Religion is of more an association or union to a particular,tradition, denomination practice, ritual in hopes to gain God's acceptance and appraoval,than it is to a god.
Christianity is based on a personal encounter with God through receiving what he has done for us ,(relationship)not what we can do to for him through religion.
But people in the secular community need to associate Christianity as being a relgion ,so that's what we have. But in reality we have a personal living relationship to God through Jesus. BIG DIFFERENCE!!
Jesus was very expressive of that to the high ruling relgious leaders of his time,where he exposed them for being externally clean ,but dead inside,there was a difference and it's called relationship ,intimacy with God ,as hard as that may be to comprehend.

What I am saying is, there is relationship with God where God reaches down and intervenes with his poeple personally and there is what is widely known as relgion, that is, man trying earnestly to reach for God through self imposed practices ,rituals rules and man made ordinances.
Relationship goes above and beyond religion




My question is why do those who are convinced that their particular holy words are from God seem to think that by default no other holy words could come from God
The Holy Spirit of God reveals to born again Christians what is truth and what is false and that does not mean we throw it in people's faces , or expect you to believe it, it is a personal revelation.
Also whatever is contrary to sound doctrine, referring to scriptures.
But again I won't tell you your wrong ,that is up to you to discover.
But that is what we beleive ,not just intellectually ,but the Holy Spirit confirms it.
 
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