How do you "know" that others are wrong and you are right?

[oldbadger]

And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

Hi Amanaki....
Maybe it is how you see such posts, but to some other members these posts might be seen as simply good debating challenges.
More on this in a minute.....

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?

You just told us that they ask questions. Now it looks as if they don't ask questions but just make claims and statements..... this looks mixed up to me.

What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

So which has it been, questions, claims or outright attacks?

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

Here it is.......... this is what you want...... so you don't want difficult questions, claims or attacks from outsiders... you just want them to go away. So how many of these folks did you hope to influence?

The very best way to handle negative questions is to treat them ALL as objections........ what this means is that the writer is simply asking for more information in a clumsy way.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hi Amanaki....
Maybe it is how you see such posts, but to some other members these posts might be seen as simply good debating challenges.
More on this in a minute.....


You just told us that they ask questions. Now it looks as if they don't ask questions but just make claims and statements..... this looks mixed up to me.


So which has it been, questions, claims or outright attacks?


Here it is.......... this is what you want...... so you don't want difficult questions, claims or attacks from outsiders... you just want them to go away. So how many of these folks did you hope to influence?

The very best way to handle negative questions is to treat them ALL as objections........ what this means is that the writer is simply asking for more information in a clumsy way.

I do not mind questions that is asked to learn, I do not like questions or statements made to damage or hurt religion or spiritual people.

Honestly I don't care a lot about how people see me, thou it is nice when people are nice in discussions.
And no I am not afraid of difficult questions.but again I do not understand how non believers think they understand religion, cultivation paths or other spiritual teachings better then those who have spent their whole life dedicated to it.
That I can not understand.

And maybe this is where the total of the problem for me is.

I don't think of influence anyone. I only share my understanding, and if someone take some of it as good, that is nice. But RF to me now is just a place to meet likeminded people.

 

[rational experiences]

What I have learnt about wrong or right.

Subject.

Life...natural. Today we are all alive by the act of human sex.

History, another subject. Discussing the first 2 human parents, is discussing the first 2 human parents.

Argument about the subject. Science claiming that their human consciousness existed before they did to advise them how a human owned their created life, by some form of power.

Subject science...for invention and for power resourcing or to change natural.

Human natural subject, hence science is wrong.

Then there is the spiritual subject which is still about God, the existence power of, the want of a human scientist to know it and gain it versus a human in science telling another human that God created them. Hence inference in the subject, hence you are a resource.

Argument does not make common sense in God science themes/theories, reason for an argument.

So then a human says to another human prove that God exists. All of the information inferred to God is already stated, was stated, was implied and the status science invention in the past, Temple and Pyramid technology.

Today nuclear chemical dusts is a stated power of God...seeing all science comes from one body O mass, and a planet. To get the energy as a resource, to own and build a machine O One in science.

Then science wants what science does not have cell replacement as a constant, so they study our life claiming somehow they will know power of God, gain a constant replacing resource and be the richest humans and most powerful of knowledge of everything that ever existed.

And believe that they are owner of human sanity.

Hence the spiritual argument, where did you come from. Most humans say from a spirit body. If you describe that spirit the status is always existed, always has existed, always will exist and always was the place from whence creation was released.

We all got released as a human Adult male or a human Adult female, as per Mother and Father body from out of that spirit only when the atmospheric body had filled back in space...the place that the eternal that burnt was released from, eternal to leave a space.

Science talks about space for the sake of science, changes to space. They are not discussing God, for God is a body of stone that is not the subject of where they place their minds thinking and talking.

If God the one planet stone did not exist, then nor would our life, our conscious awareness or this discussion, so our life began as a scientific notification on planet Earth and not in some evil male's psyche whose topic of self intention as applied by scientists like STephen Hawking to religious leaders as being human greed.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

Hi Amanaki. How are you?

I believe as we are all one, we can all learn from each other just we need to speak in a manner that does not burden others but uplifts and encourages them to feel good.

Our oneness is never ever in question just the language we use to articulate it and that’s why love is really the only language that really ever works because love is a universally understood language.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

I can't speak for others, but as far as I am concerned, I think this is debate forum precisely for the purpose of exchanging religious ideas and challenging of those ideas.

It's not like I stop random people in the streets to tell them about all the stupid nonsense they believe or something...

I just do that here, on a forum where other people come for precisly the purpose to talk about this stuff.


As for your question concerning how I know when I'm am right and others wrong... in essence, it's rather easy: when I have, or are aware of, the evidence that demonstrates that.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I can't speak for others, but as far as I am concerned, I think this is debate forum precisely for the purpose of exchanging religious ideas and challenging of those ideas.

It's not like I stop random people in the streets to tell them about all the stupid nonsense they believe or something...

I just do that here, on a forum where other people come for precisly the purpose to talk about this stuff.


As for your question concerning how I know when I'm am right and others wrong... in essence, it's rather easy: when I have, or are aware of, the evidence that demonstrates that.

I agree the forum is of course for discussion and learning, and in many cases I have no problem discussing with atheists, but I admit I have problem with 3-4 who do not accept that what I say in this forum, is my own understanding and I do not claim to hold the full truth, but I have no doubt about the practice I cultivate. So yes I have reacted when non believers try to damage the teaching (not only the one I cultivate I mean)

 

[GardenLady]

I have nothing against atheists and their lack of belief, but do not understand why they so desperately try to tear down the belief of religious/spiritual people.

Clearly seeing atheists counter religious beliefs resonates with you and disturbs you. I ask you to see another aspect of this as well. There are also people of faith in the forums who condemn atheists or agnostics. Also, there are those of a given faith who deride others of different faith or those holding different views within a broad category of faith (e.g., fundamentalists tearing down those of what are generally called "mainstream" Christian denominations). The arrows can and do fly in all directions. All of us have the choice to close a given thread or ignore a given post.

 

[oldbadger]

I do not mind questions that is asked to learn, I do not like questions or statements made to damage or hurt religion or spiritual people.

Honestly I don't care a lot about how people see me, thou it is nice when people are nice in discussions.
And no I am not afraid of difficult questions.but again I do not understand how non believers think they understand religion, cultivation paths or other spiritual teachings better then those who have spent their whole life dedicated to it.
That I can not understand.

And maybe this is where the total of the problem for me is.

I don't think of influence anyone. I only share my understanding, and if someone take some of it as good, that is nice. But RF to me now is just a place to meet likeminded people.

I guess that we get all sorts on RF, just like in the World.

One easy mind trick to use when folks are making aggressive statements or asking nasty questions is to tell yourself that they are just asking for more or clear information. Objections = appeals for help. !! It can help you if not them.

I was just recently told that anybody who does not believe in that person's particular church is a 'Child of Satan', which was of course, me! I was so amazed that I actually considered asking the RF bosses if I could change my name to 'Child of Satan'!

I never make threads or posts in any DIR, but if you want to only read more positive replies to your ideas then that might be the best option....... the DIRs.

I hope you feel better about us all again soon.
All the best, Amanaki.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Clearly seeing atheists counter religious beliefs resonates with you and disturbs you. I ask you to see another aspect of this as well. There are also people of faith in the forums who condemn atheists or agnostics. Also, there are those of a given faith who deride others of different faith or those holding different views within a broad category of faith (e.g., fundamentalists tearing down those of what are generally called "mainstream" Christian denominations). The arrows can and do fly in all directions. All of us have the choice to close a given thread or ignore a given post.

So far my problem has been with atheists.

 

[Koldo]

In the week or so since I come back to RF I noticed even more negativity then before I left.
And often (not always) the discussion derail because a non believer start asking questions that is non related to the OP, where it is very clear that their mission is to debunk any form of personal spiritual belief.

How do this people know they are correct when they can not prove the spiritual experience that others have is real?
What is the purpose of slandering a religion you do not follow your self? Yes I know you do not believe, burn the religious people do. And guess what, the religion is for the religious people to follow not the non religious.

And yes I know some religious people try to hard to convert you. But you can say No thank you. I do not believe, and just leave the discussion

How hard can it be?

It is very rare for me to see slandering happening here. I can't even remember what was the last time I saw it.

Anyway, it is dangerous to confuse debunkering with slandering. They are completely different beasts.

 

[Heyo]

So far my problem has been with atheists.

Your problem has been with trolls. Atheist trolls, yes, but it wasn't their atheism that was the problem. We all (except the trolls) have problems with trolls.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It is very rare for me to see slandering happening here. I can't even remember what was the last time I saw it.

Anyway, it is dangerous to confuse debunkering with slandering. They are completely different beasts.

No atheists has ever debunked anything in spiritual practice.

 

[Koldo]

No atheists has ever debunked anything in spiritual practice.

That's a pretty big claim.
How do you know you are right?

 

[rational experiences]

As a self researcher, who places self apart from religious ideal, and yet knowingly is affected by group sharing of information and teaching, I learnt in healing to listen to subliminal mind shared information, that owns personal expressed motivated confessions.

So I realised that if science the occult who owned by temple/pyramid technology past the harm of the life of self, and named it Jesus and then said idolise my own life, and never cause it again, then they prove they did. Known. Stated, studied and then preached. No argument in that historic review, the only argument was did it really happen....the attack.

Obvious that it was real, otherwise occultism practices, science would not have stopped, the use of Temple and the pyramid. Technology and the nuclear cause/ground life attacked.

So humans prove to self that from the very evilest acts, a spiritual theme, about self occurred, with spiritual information. That motivated past preaching gave the constant subliminal idealisation expressed by a multi group of males the designer of science his ideal that from the most evilest came the most spiritual.

As a false ideal.

How do I know, only from self experience, irradiation gas mass burning fall out upon my head, the intense brain prickling as my chemical brain burnt, all the visions and hearing of voice I endured, and the knowledge that males as the designer science/machine caused it. Experience is the I know in human life.

So then we are preached to in scientific occultism, documentation that the human did not know evil originally for when science was first chosen the EFFECT, radiation gas burning fallout, to gain light at its beginning, gases burning was not known.

Hence when a life that did not own gases burning, in natural claims it in science for machine, then you inherit it. The I know teaching, the I know last warning advice, for the I know also says, in science and also in everyday human life, that human greed, want of control and lying is why life gets destroyed, the theme One, the story O one first begins as the ST ONE planet, yet science only themes gas heavenly body in spatial zero, its idea of One and beginnings in nuclear science cosmology themes....from space.

Why in the past they were proven liars, as the I know, I learnt, I suffered self advice.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I agree the forum is of course for discussion and learning, and in many cases I have no problem discussing with atheists, but I admit I have problem with 3-4 who do not accept that what I say in this forum, is my own understanding and I do not claim to hold the full truth, but I have no doubt about the practice I cultivate. So yes I have reacted when non believers try to damage the teaching (not only the one I cultivate I mean)

To be honest, there are far more theists on here, then just 3-4, who are so stubbornly dishonest in their discourse that at times they make me want to rip my arm off, just so I would have something to throw at them.

Not to mention the many many badly hidden insults like them telling me how evil and empty and pointless my life as an atheist supposedly is, how I'm incapable of love because I have no belief in an imaginary sky daddy, how I have no foundation for morals nore morals full stop, how I should be a nihilist who would have to kill babies with disabilities because "survival of the fittest", etc etc etc etc.

Sure, I can be a little rough in discussion and I may even lose my temper at times... but NEVER have I said such horrible and disgusting things to anyone.

 

[Spirit of Light]

To be honest, there are far more theists on here, then just 3-4, who are so stubbornly dishonest in their discourse that at times they make me want to rip my arm off, just so I would have something to throw at them.

Not to mention the many many badly hidden insults like them telling me how evil and empty and pointless my life as an atheist supposedly is, how I'm incapable of love because I have no belief in an imaginary sky daddy, how I have no foundation for morals nore morals full stop, how I should be a nihilist who would have to kill babies with disabilities because "survival of the fittest", etc etc etc etc.

Sure, I can be a little rough in discussion and I may even lose my temper at times... but NEVER have I said such horrible and disgusting things to anyone.

So you know how it feels when someone try to discredit your view or belief.
But I am not saying theists do not sometimes ridicule Atheists far worse then my own disagreement with atheists

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No atheists has ever debunked anything in spiritual practice.

So what? The burden of proof is on the positive claim.

It's not upto atheists to debunk god. It's upto theists to demonstrate god. And if they fail, all an atheist has to do is point it out, as sufficient reason to disbelieve.

 

[Spirit of Light]

So what? The burden of proof is on the positive claim.

It's not upto atheists to debunk god. It's upto theists to demonstrate god. And if they fail, all an atheist has to do is point it out, as sufficient reason to disbelieve.

Personally I have no need to "prove" anything to others. My belief is in my personal journey in life as a Falun Gong practitioner. All I have to do is to realize for my self the teachings. What others believe is up to them.

 

[Heyo]

To be honest, there are far more theists on here, then just 3-4, who are so stubbornly dishonest in their discourse that at times they make me want to rip my arm off, just so I would have something to throw at them.

Not to mention the many many badly hidden insults like them telling me how evil and empty and pointless my life as an atheist supposedly is, how I'm incapable of love because I have no belief in an imaginary sky daddy, how I have no foundation for morals nore morals full stop, how I should be a nihilist who would have to kill babies with disabilities because "survival of the fittest", etc etc etc etc.

Sure, I can be a little rough in discussion and I may even lose my temper at times... but NEVER have I said such horrible and disgusting things to anyone.

Some people are sore losers. Don't be a sore winner.
When someone has lost the argument and gets emotional over it, like with ad hominems or the typical "you'll learn when it's too late", it is time to leave. The audience can clearly see who was right and it would be rude or even cruel to kick someone who is already down.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So you know how it feels when someone try to discredit your view or belief.

No, that's not at all the same thing.
I very much welcome people challenging my belies. It leads to discussion and exchange of ideas and perhaps I (as well the challenger) might actually learn something.

I think the challenging of ideas is a GOOD thing, as it leads to discussion.

I don't consider it "insulting" when somebody is challenging my beliefs. At all.
I welcome it. I invite it. I even motivate it.

Because if my beliefs are incorrect, I'll find out by having those beliefs challenged. That is how you learn thing things and find out that you believe false things.

That's a good thing.

But telling me I am incapable of love, that I have no moral framework, that I deserve eternal torment, etc... is not challenging ideas. That's just being judgemental and insulting based on misrepresentations of what I actually believe.

But I am not saying theists do not sometimes ridicule Atheists far worse then my own disagreement with atheists

Disagreement isn't a bad thing, nore is it insulting.