How do you Define God????

[Muslim-UK]

That's a muslim interpretation which obviously you don't want it to say something else.

Where in that verse does it say God turned his back on them as Paul states? God mentions His union with the Bani Israel in many places, and it's always with the intention of sticking by them.

Then you didn't read it.

Give me the verse please, as there is no mention of crucifixion or resurrection after 3 days.

Who also spoke to the Apostles.

Did they read what he wrote to confirm it was accurate?

Luke gave the historical account besides being a doctor and confirmed by it by speaking to many first hand witnesses. Like what they do at a crime scene. Those who take notes didn't see it but they record the eye witness accounts.

Where in his Gospel does he give the names of who he met, whose statements he took?

None of the muslims who say "Jesus didn't die on the cross" were at the scene... it is fake news.

GOD was at the scene, or did you overlook that small detail?

You need to explain, why Paul changed Scripture to promote a New Covenant, before we can look at the bulk of my evidence showing Jesus pbuh was not crucified.

 

[Kenny]

Where in that verse does it say God turned his back on them as Paul states? God mentions His union with the Bani Israel in many places, and it's always with the intention of sticking by them.

You can find it throughout the OT.
The greatest of them all was when Israel was no longer under the control of Jews.

Give me the verse please, as there is no mention of crucifixion or resurrection after 3 days.

Crucifixion of Christ: Psalm 22 as Prophecy
Prophecies of the Resurrection | The Institute for Creation Research

Did they read what he wrote to confirm it was accurate?

Do you find any letters that say "Luke is completely wrong"? Or do you find letters that confirm what is said!!

Where in his Gospel does he give the names of who he met, whose statements he took?

Where in the Koran do they give the names of the statements that they took of Mohammad (mghmohs)

GOD was at the scene, or did you overlook that small detail?

EXACTLY! Except for the small moment when you sins and my sins were placed on Jesus (pbuh)

You need to explain, why Paul changed Scripture to promote a New Covenant, before we can look at the bulk of my evidence showing Jesus pbuh was not crucified.

He didn't

You see, your position is that no-one died on that cross and yet they broke the legs of those who hadn't died. To not have broken the legs of Jesus to make him die (or his substitute) would be grounds for the execution of the soldiers.

You have just too many holes on your story that he didn't die on the cross.... and yet his tomb is empty and it is recorded that those who followed Jesus (pbuh) said that he rose again. (and from non Christian sources close to the actual event)

So I just can't accept and erroneous story created hundreds of years after the event.

 

[Bird123]

Oh no... there are classes for GED and a host of other classes for self improvement and instruction... but people still choose to go back to prison.

Those do not address the underlying causes of the crime. Mankind makes little attempt to understand that and yet working to solve the real problem could eliminate so many of the future crimes. It's easier to attempt to sweep the problems under the carpet, however the problems keep returning until the lessons are learned.

 

[Bird123]

I agree with most of that. But often people do not forgive themselves for their own mistakes.
They often do not forgive others, and become resentful. This is often justifiable when the perpetrator
'apologizes' for his error, and then continues to make others suffer by repeating the error.
Forgiveness is part of the process of indicating that genuine learning has taken place.

A killer may kill out of self-defense, but then becomes a mass murderer in order to try and justify that
initial act as being acceptable practice. I have seen this in examining the apartheid racists and
how they justified oppressing and killing black people in order to even try and come to terms
with race wars from previous generations.

Yes, you are right. There are many issues around forgiveness. Perhaps religion and society make the most important parts blame, fault and pay back. On the other hand, the most important part really is the fix, the learning which leads to the crime no longer being a viable choice one could make. Yes, people lie and repeat the crime, however that just means they have not learned yet.

It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you do that counts. One can not allow religion and society to corrupt one's view which leads to revenge, pay back or hate. Unconditional Love does what is best for the other. The higher Level is to work at teaching the criminal what they are missing as far as knowledge and education. One might not be able to complete that in one lifetime. As I see it, the lesson will return to the criminal until the lesson is learned. A point in the right direction would be a gift for everyone concerned.

Guilt and forgiveness: I know a lady who was such a warm, loving, kind, and generous person. She always helped everyone she came across. She asked me one day. Do you think I'm going to end up in Hell? I could not believe my ears. As I see it, religion had corrupted her view of herself. She was consumed with worry. It took several weeks of talks for me to finally get her head on straight.

Just as you say. there are many sides to the guilt, blame, condemning and forgiving. Many tap dance around all this when all that is really needed is the fix.If everyone concentrated only on that, the problems would slowly disappear.

 

[Bird123]

They wouldn't have to be justified.

If there's no one to judge you, and who's going to judge God, you can do anything you want.

Flood the world, kill everyone. Bring them all back. Cause them to not remember any prior event, no harm has been done.

How can you be harmed by something you have no knowledge of? You feel harmed because of your thoughts about it, but you wouldn't have them to feel harmed by.

Your actions define who you are regardless whether anyone knows about them or not. Who is to judge? In the end, we all will judge ourselves. If God really acted as you say, God would know He was not at a Higher Level. Further, God would discover, in time, that would not be intelligent.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Jesus pbuh did not die on the cross. Crucifixion, resurrection, Son of God and Trinity are all made up to justify a Roman Religion.

But you left out the other Muslim teachings re: Jesus, that not only did He not die on the cross but that Judas did--a horrible blasphemy to any Christian.

The biblical religion is not the Roman church's religion, you would do well to study the scriptures, and the Qu'ran tells us that Allah gave us the scriptures, so pay attention!

 

[BilliardsBall]

As I see it. Death is no more than a Change. The lessons will never go away until the lessons are learned. We are all Eternal.

Okay, but biblically speaking, persons will be separated into transformed for utopia or eternally separated from the first group.

 

[Muslim-UK]

But you left out the other Muslim teachings re: Jesus, that not only did He not die on the cross but that Judas did--a horrible blasphemy to any Christian.

With no eyewitnesses in the NT, we have no clue who was crucified. Some of the texts left out of the NT show Disciples thought it Simon of Cyrene, other say it was Judas, the one who betrayed Jesus pbuh.

The NT does explain Jesus pbuh stayed up all night praying to be saved, so much so he sweated blood, we know there was a Earthquake and a Eclipse threw the whole land into darkness and confusion, we also know NT says the prayers of Jesus pbuh were always answered.

NT also says Jesus pbuh had ability to shape shift and one of the 2 Jesus' held by Pontius Pilate was released, there is confusion on who tried him, what was said, what day it was, who carried the cross, who watched, what he said on the cross, how long he was crucified, who visited the tomb etc etc

All in all as the Qur'an says, Christians follow nothing but conjecture.

The biblical religion is not the Roman church's religion, you would do well to study the scriptures, and the Qu'ran tells us that Allah gave us the scriptures, so pay attention!

Qur'an makes no mention of a Book called the New Testament.

 

[Hawkins]

How would you define a God who would create Hell knowing someone would go there?

Because in the end you are either with God or you are not. There's nothing in between. Earth is a fair place for you to make such a decision. The bonding with God is more or less like a marriage. It's mutual agreement. It's no point to be with someone you don't choose or someone doesn't choose you.

Hell is the most natural place ever, any other places are God made. As your own choice to reject God, God has nothing to do with you. Why do you have to insist on living with Him and inside His creation?

 

[Bird123]

Okay, but biblically speaking, persons will be separated into transformed for utopia or eternally separated from the first group.

Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God. Can you base reality on a book written by mankind and based on beliefs or what they think God is like? I do not think so. Further, religion does not search to discover new things about God. Can they really know it all? How could they? Finally, they do not correct their errors. As I see it, Reality can not be based on Stories.

Some say God inspired those writings. What else would you expect them to say once challenged? If one saw only the parts that taught Unconditional Love, one might assume yes. On the other hand the Bible not only does not add up, it proves that it could not possibly come from God when it values so many petty things of mankind such as Blaming, Judging, Condemning,Punishing, Unjust Punishment,Coercing,Intimidating,Separating the oneness of all God's children,Degrading People,and yes Hating. God has to be at a Higher Level. God has to be Better than that!!!

 

[Bird123]

Because in the end you are either with God or you are not. There's nothing in between. Earth is a fair place for you to make such a decision. The bonding with God is more or less like a marriage. It's mutual agreement. It's no point to be with someone you don't choose or someone doesn't choose you.

Hell is the most natural place ever, any other places are God made. As your own choice to reject God, God has nothing to do with you. Why do you have to insist on living with Him and inside His creation?

Is God so emotionally wounded by rejection that God would abandon His children? Can God create such a Wonderful and Amazing universe yet be so helpless with a few wayward children? Seems that your God has a few Mental problems along with the lacking of High Intelligence,by refusing or unable to choose the Higher Level.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Religion is mankind's attempt to understand God. Can you base reality on a book written by mankind and based on beliefs or what they think God is like? I do not think so. Further, religion does not search to discover new things about God. Can they really know it all? How could they? Finally, they do not correct their errors. As I see it, Reality can not be based on Stories.

Some say God inspired those writings. What else would you expect them to say once challenged? If one saw only the parts that taught Unconditional Love, one might assume yes. On the other hand the Bible not only does not add up, it proves that it could not possibly come from God when it values so many petty things of mankind such as Blaming, Judging, Condemning,Punishing, Unjust Punishment,Coercing,Intimidating,Separating the oneness of all God's children,Degrading People,and yes Hating. God has to be at a Higher Level. God has to be Better than that!!!

You didn't know the Bible condemns the things you listed? It affirms Oneness of God's Children, righteous punishment, exonerating the innocent, etc.

Yes God does hate some things and is intolerant of some things, sure. For example, God hates that we are lost and sent a Savior to change and redeem us.

 

[Bird123]

You didn't know the Bible condemns the things you listed? It affirms Oneness of God's Children, righteous punishment, exonerating the innocent, etc.

Yes God does hate some things and is intolerant of some things, sure. For example, God hates that we are lost and sent a Savior to change and redeem us.

When anyone ever says that God hates, I know they do not know God at all. What purpose does hate really serve? Hate is never intelligent. Why would a God capable of fixing anything get mad when some needs help? It does not add up.

Many choose hard lessons for themselves. These lessons are the fix. We will not be saved from our education regardless of how one believes that it is so.

 

[metis]

What purpose does hate really serve? Hate is never intelligent. Why would a God capable of fixing anything get mad when some needs help? It does not add up.

As we've seen, all too often some people make God in their own image, thus those that are more hate-filled themselves tend to more believe in a hate-filled god.

 

[Bird123]

As we've seen, all too often some people make God in their own image, thus those that are more hate-filled themselves tend to more believe in a hate-filled god.

Indeed, our every action and choice shows God and the world who we are and what we need to learn. One can attempt to hide behind their view of God, however for the real observer, their actions and not their beliefs speak the Real Truth. If hate is acceptable in their own life, it will exist in their own beliefs so I see what you say as being true.

 

[Kenny]

Those do not address the underlying causes of the crime. Mankind makes little attempt to understand that and yet working to solve the real problem could eliminate so many of the future crimes. It's easier to attempt to sweep the problems under the carpet, however the problems keep returning until the lessons are learned.

But, Christian do address that too, we preach the Gospel to change the hearts!

 

[BilliardsBall]

When anyone ever says that God hates, I know they do not know God at all. What purpose does hate really serve? Hate is never intelligent. Why would a God capable of fixing anything get mad when some needs help? It does not add up.

Many choose hard lessons for themselves. These lessons are the fix. We will not be saved from our education regardless of how one believes that it is so.

I know God, and in the scriptures specific statements are made regarding what our God hates.

You may be making a general philosophical claim (God hates nothing) and I am making a biblical claim or reference (God hates sin and poured His wrath on Jesus to save us, God hates pedophilia and it is better for a pedophile to be tied to a rock and drowned that meet God for judgment, God hates divorce, etc.). These and other specific statements in the Bible contain words for God and hate together.

 

[Bird123]

I know God, and in the scriptures specific statements are made regarding what our God hates.

You may be making a general philosophical claim (God hates nothing) and I am making a biblical claim or reference (God hates sin and poured His wrath on Jesus to save us, God hates pedophilia and it is better for a pedophile to be tied to a rock and drowned that meet God for judgment, God hates divorce, etc.). These and other specific statements in the Bible contain words for God and hate together.

Why do you think it's right to teach hate? Your holy book might do just that, however as I see it, that only proves that your holy book comes from mankind and not God.

 

[Bird123]

But, Christian do address that too, we preach the Gospel to change the hearts!

Teaching a holy book is not the same as discovering the underlying causes.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Why do you think it's right to teach hate? Your holy book might do just that, however as I see it, that only proves that your holy book comes from mankind and not God.

The Bible DOES teach hate, yes. For example, God HATES divorce.

God loves fidelity, happy marriages, children. God made sex, love, commitment.

God HATES when mockers mock the Bible.

God HATES when people self-destruct via their sin.

The implications--love one's spouse, stop sinning, love the scriptures, be saved.