How do you Define God????

[Bird123]

Have a break and watch 10 mins here, 10 mins there. He was a Christian who became Atheist and explains what the meaning of life is from the Qur'an. Explains original sin is incorrect and gives a interesting talk about growing up in a violent household, hating God and questioning the meaning of life.

GOD needs nothing at all from us. The worship and good deeds we do are for OUR benefit alone.

Then live your life, treat others how you wish to be treated. All that Muslims are commanded to do is convey the message. Acceptance or rejection is between you and the Creator we all return to.

Salam

Have you questioned why you must deliver the message? God is well capable of delivering His own messages. I think it is your religion who needs followers thereby needing believers to convince others.

The parts of the Qur'an that I have read seem very threatening. Must God threaten and intimidate? I think not. As I see it. This is not God. This is Mankind!!

 

[Bird123]

How do we identify a 'God-act"?

As I see it. If everything was created by God, then every way things work is due to an action of God. Perhaps, you can start as a 4 year old does. Ask the question. WHY WHY WHY WHY. When you discover the answers, you should have learned something about God. If you become an endlessly hungry student, you can come up with a million questions to search the answers for. You might just be surprised where this might take you.

 

[Jesster]

You are open to all possibilities rather than restricting your view to a set of beliefs without questioning. Keep your eyes open. You never know what you might Discover.

Okay then. I've had an open mind for a long time now. I'll let you know if anything comes up, but so far there's nothing.

 

[anonymous9887]

How would you define a God who would create Hell knowing someone would go there?

How would you define the Quality of Justice in a God who creates an eternal punishment without the possibility of redemption?

I have been told by some that God does not send people to Hell, they volunteer to go. What does that say about a God who is unwilling or unable to fix the problems with His creations?

Some say God is helpless within the realm of free will. A saleslady in the mall sold me some cookware that I didn't even need or want under the realm of my free will. If this lady is not helpless under the realm of free will, what does that say about a God who is?

Some say God can't stand to be around Evil and that is the reason for Hell. How many times have people had to be uncomfortable in order to solve the problems of the world? What does that say about a God who won't live up to the same standards that His creations must?

Some say God is perfect, yet in the next breath they say all people are flawed from birth. What does that say about a perfect God who can't create perfect people?

Some say God is Unconditional Love, yet in the next breath they list conditions in order to get God's favor for things such as eternal bliss and heaven.

As I see it, Real Truth must always add up. How could I define God as all these people do when it doesn't add up?

When things do not add up, that is the time one should Question. If one merely accepts it, one is not really after the truth.

Can one choose to live outside reality in a realm of beliefs? As I see it, many are doing just that today. What many do not realize is that living in true reality is better.

Our actions and choices define who we are.
God's actions and choices define who God is.
How do you define God? Does it Really add up?

1. God did not create a place of eternal punishment. God created all things good (Genesis 1:31). God created all things for the benefit of man. It was not intended for man to be punished.
2. 1st of all we dont really know except for the few examples of the bible who are punished eternally, who really is going to be punished eternally. 2nd these people must have an unwilling spirit to submit to god's direction and continue their wicked life style. they have received warning after warning but are unwilling to budge.
3. Free will. I love and enjoy free will. These people choose to disobey god. God isn't helpless, he just respects their personal choice.
4. Yes the sales lady sold you the cook ware, but you are 1 of billions, in the same sense not all the billions will buy the cookware. Plus you later realized that you did not need the cookware, also people that are sold in to god for a moment then realize according to their own opinion that they no longer want to follow. the choice of following god affects your entire course of life throughout your entire life.
5. Actually god is also a god of wisdom and waits for the perfect time to act, he does not necessarily act when things get bad, but acts at the most efficient time, to accomplish a purpose.
6. god actually did create perfect people with free will. Adam and Eve were created perfect, but the moment they chose to eat from the tree they became imperfect thus started producing imperfect offspring
7. God desires all to reach repentance. We are all imperfect thus require repentance. unwillingness to submit to the designer of life, the one (god) who knows how life should be lived, would show we are not willing to live the way life was intended to, and we if not willing to submit to the laws of creation would affect creation in a negative way.
8. The bible actually adds up quite nicely. Yes it takes diligent study, but it is well worth it.

 

[Desert Snake]

This thread is abstract.

 

[Desert Snake]

Confusing thread,

 

[Desert Snake]

Okay then. I've had an open mind for a long time now. I'll let you know if anything comes up, but so far there's nothing.

I have a question, though,

Is atheism a religion? Is it a faith?

 

[Jesster]

I have a question, though,

Is atheism a religion? Is it a faith?

No

 

[PureX]

How do we identify a 'God-act"?

How does "worship"relate to it?

What does this question have to do with the question I just asked you?

I'm beginning to suspect that your mind does not work right.

 

[Kenny]

I have a question, though,

Is atheism a religion? Is it a faith?

yes

 

[Bird123]

1. God did not create a place of eternal punishment. God created all things good (Genesis 1:31). God created all things for the benefit of man. It was not intended for man to be punished.
2. 1st of all we dont really know except for the few examples of the bible who are punished eternally, who really is going to be punished eternally. 2nd these people must have an unwilling spirit to submit to god's direction and continue their wicked life style. they have received warning after warning but are unwilling to budge.
3. Free will. I love and enjoy free will. These people choose to disobey god. God isn't helpless, he just respects their personal choice.
4. Yes the sales lady sold you the cook ware, but you are 1 of billions, in the same sense not all the billions will buy the cookware. Plus you later realized that you did not need the cookware, also people that are sold in to god for a moment then realize according to their own opinion that they no longer want to follow. the choice of following god affects your entire course of life throughout your entire life.
5. Actually god is also a god of wisdom and waits for the perfect time to act, he does not necessarily act when things get bad, but acts at the most efficient time, to accomplish a purpose.
6. god actually did create perfect people with free will. Adam and Eve were created perfect, but the moment they chose to eat from the tree they became imperfect thus started producing imperfect offspring
7. God desires all to reach repentance. We are all imperfect thus require repentance. unwillingness to submit to the designer of life, the one (god) who knows how life should be lived, would show we are not willing to live the way life was intended to, and we if not willing to submit to the laws of creation would affect creation in a negative way.
8. The bible actually adds up quite nicely. Yes it takes diligent study, but it is well worth it.

God created everything. If Hell exists, then God created it.

The saleslady was just an example to show that no one is helpless under free will. If one is helpless, it's only because one chooses to be helpless. What does that say about God?

Sure there are stubborn people in the world. On the other hand, when the problems are solved, there is no need to be stubborn.

Looks like Adam and Eve was not perfect after all. When one understands all sides, intelligence will always make the best choices. Besides, Adam and Eve is just a story. None of that ever existed. It doesn't add up.

If one is acting as designed, why is repentance needed? It does not add up. If one is not acting as designed, the creation was never perfect.

Repentance is not what God wants. As for the Bible, it is a creation of mankind. As I see it, it values so many of the same petty things mankind does. Hell is just an example of that.

I find it funny you think Hell does not exist. Isn't it in your Bible? On the other hand, Hell really does not exist except as an idea in the minds of people.

 

[anonymous9887]

I have a question, though,

Is atheism a religion? Is it a faith?

yes it is, there is a belief aspect, because you would need definite evidence of molecules to man. Or you would need definite evidence of life coming by natural processes. All science in regards to the past requires assumptions. Questions they cant answer
1. Where did consciousness come from?
2. What was before the big bang?

 

[anonymous9887]

God created everything. If Hell exists, then God created it.

The saleslady was just an example to show that no one is helpless under free will. If one is helpless, it's only because one chooses to be helpless. What does that say about God?

Sure there are stubborn people in the world. On the other hand, when the problems are solved, there is no need to be stubborn.

Looks like Adam and Eve was not perfect after all. When one understands all sides, intelligence will always make the best choices. Besides, Adam and Eve is just a story. None of that ever existed. It doesn't add up.

If one is acting as designed, why is repentance needed? It does not add up. If one is not acting as designed, the creation was never perfect.

Repentance is not what God wants. As for the Bible, it is a creation of mankind. As I see it, it values so many of the same petty things mankind does. Hell is just an example of that.

I find it funny you think Hell does not exist. Isn't it in your Bible? On the other hand, Hell really does not exist except as an idea in the minds of people.

1. God did not create a place of torment. There is no mention of this in the Torah, and the use of it in the NT is symbolic Revelation 20:14
2. God created, and provided everything good, and if Adam and Eve chose to disobey that is on them. It says god allows us to make our choices while at the same time encouraging what is correct
3. But if the problems are solved, and we have the right way of doing things, and they decide to go another way that jeopardizes mankind, what then?
4. Adam had full knowledge of who god was, Eve was thoroughly deceived. He was smart, but people can also choose to be dumb, and boy have I seen smart people make dumb choices knowing the consequences
5. we were not designed the way we are now, we are offspring of rebellious humans that became rebellious. They were not designed rebellious.
6. 2 Peter 3:9
Ezekiel 18:23


Creation of mankind

In harmony with science
Genesis 9:4
Genesis 7:11
Leviticus 17:11
Isaiah 40:22
Job 26:7
Jonah 2:6
Leviticus 15:13

These scientific statements were written way ahead their discovery by mankind, not to mention that when these books were written they had many other popular ideas at that time.

 

[Bird123]

1. God did not create a place of torment. There is no mention of this in the Torah, and the use of it in the NT is symbolic Revelation 20:14
2. God created, and provided everything good, and if Adam and Eve chose to disobey that is on them. It says god allows us to make our choices while at the same time encouraging what is correct
3. But if the problems are solved, and we have the right way of doing things, and they decide to go another way that jeopardizes mankind, what then?
4. Adam had full knowledge of who god was, Eve was thoroughly deceived. He was smart, but people can also choose to be dumb, and boy have I seen smart people make dumb choices knowing the consequences
5. we were not designed the way we are now, we are offspring of rebellious humans that became rebellious. They were not designed rebellious.
6. 2 Peter 3:9
Ezekiel 18:23


Creation of mankind

In harmony with science
Genesis 9:4
Genesis 7:11
Leviticus 17:11
Isaiah 40:22
Job 26:7
Jonah 2:6
Leviticus 15:13

These scientific statements were written way ahead their discovery by mankind, not to mention that when these books were written they had many other popular ideas at that time.

If God provided everything good, why did God leave out the knowledge that Adam and Eve had missing? Since God knows everything, then God created Adam and Eve knowing they would fail. Why would God do that?

How could anything one could do jeopardize mankind? God is not going to allow mankind to destroy the classroom.

If smart people make dumb choices, there is something missing. They are not as smart as you think.

As I see it, your religion values Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing, and maybe Abandonment. I won't mention frying the kids. Are these things really a Higher Level that God should be??? Of course not. The Higher Level would be to solve the Real problem.

How does one solve the Real Problem? As I see it, God teaches all His children by returning their actions and choices back to them so that they might understand what their actions and choices really mean. When one understands all sides, intelligence will make the best choices. This also teaches people to Love Unconditionally. After all, that is what everyone wants to return. People are Living their Lessons.

You see. there are ways better than Blaming,Judging,Condemning,Punishing, Abandoning or Frying the kids.

What is more important? The Kids or all those petty things mankind values. If God is not at a Higher Level, it is not God because to act any other way would not be intelligent. As I see it, the actions of your description of God is not intelligent.

I looked at some of those quotes that is supposed to predict science. I find it a joke. Just like with horoscopes, people will find a way to see what they want to see in them. The desperation to make that holy book reality is showing, however as I see it, there is far too much real evidence that shows it could not possible be God. Just like with the petty things it values, it simply does not add up.

 

[Grandliseur]

How would you define a God who would create Hell knowing someone would go there?

How would you define the Quality of Justice in a God who creates an eternal punishment without the possibility of redemption?

I have numerous times shown by scripture that death is destruction. There is no - being alive in hell to feel pain and torment. The word hell while found in some translations, does not, except in a parable, refer to the a condition in which people are in torment, or even alive. Death is the return to not being.

It is your responsibility to study what scripture says about this, and if you cannot by yourself, ask such as I who can show you by the Bible.
Adam was told that he would return to dust, not hell fire. In Ezekiel we are told that the sinner shall die, nothing else.

 

[PureX]

As I see it. If everything was created by God, then every way things work is due to an action of God.

But that world would appear exactly the same to us as if nothing were created by God and nothing is the result of God's action. So why should anyone else see it as you see it? Why should we assume that everything that happens, happens as an act of God? As opposed to, say, it happening by chance. Or by fate.

Perhaps, you can start as a 4 year old does. Ask the question. WHY WHY WHY WHY. When you discover the answers, you should have learned something about God.

What answers do you think we can discover about the why of existence? Because as far as I know, all humanity has ever come up with regarding this question are a few theories. But no answers. Could it be that you've simply convinced yourself that whatever theory you've come up with is your "answer", when it's really just another theory?

If you become an endlessly hungry student, you can come up with a million questions to search the answers for. You might just be surprised where this might take you.

And you might be surprised to learn where I've already been.

 

[anonymous9887]

If God provided everything good, why did God leave out the knowledge that Adam and Eve had missing? Since God knows everything, then God created Adam and Eve knowing they would fail. Why would God do that?

How could anything one could do jeopardize mankind? God is not going to allow mankind to destroy the classroom.

If smart people make dumb choices, there is something missing. They are not as smart as you think.

As I see it, your religion values Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing, and maybe Abandonment. I won't mention frying the kids. Are these things really a Higher Level that God should be??? Of course not. The Higher Level would be to solve the Real problem.

How does one solve the Real Problem? As I see it, God teaches all His children by returning their actions and choices back to them so that they might understand what their actions and choices really mean. When one understands all sides, intelligence will make the best choices. This also teaches people to Love Unconditionally. After all, that is what everyone wants to return. People are Living their Lessons.

You see. there are ways better than Blaming,Judging,Condemning,Punishing, Abandoning or Frying the kids.

What is more important? The Kids or all those petty things mankind values. If God is not at a Higher Level, it is not God because to act any other way would not be intelligent. As I see it, the actions of your description of God is not intelligent.

I looked at some of those quotes that is supposed to predict science. I find it a joke. Just like with horoscopes, people will find a way to see what they want to see in them. The desperation to make that holy book reality is showing, however as I see it, there is far too much real evidence that shows it could not possible be God. Just like with the petty things it values, it simply does not add up.

1. First off god has the knowledge to know all the possible outcomes. God did everything good for them to make the right choices. God had a perfect plan for them as long as they chose correctly. Even if god knew they would fail god had the best of intentions for his creations as long as they chose correctly, and right now we are currently waiting for god to restore the paradise.
2. Again god created genetics so that we could pass on our perfect offspring, god gave them something good they turned it into something bad. Well when Satan Adam and Eve disobeyed Many questions were raised against god. And as far as I see it, had god destroyed Adam and Eve, it would not have been fair to the righteous people that would come from Adam. So if god created Adam and Eve with no choice to sin, it is no longer free will. If he destroyed them after sinning it is unfair for those who are righteous that come after.

3. So obviously evil exist in the world today. How would you handle murders, rapes, arson, grand theft, battery, and etc... Should their be no consequences. where do we draw the line between "As I see it, your religion values Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing, and maybe Abandonment" When can we have the right to protect our families.

4. Evil exist in the world, no doubt. Explain why, and when will it stop. Is there a god?

 

[Bird123]

I have numerous times shown by scripture that death is destruction. There is no - being alive in hell to feel pain and torment. The word hell while found in some translations, does not, except in a parable, refer to the a condition in which people are in torment, or even alive. Death is the return to not being.

It is your responsibility to study what scripture says about this, and if you cannot by yourself, ask such as I who can show you by the Bible.
Adam was told that he would return to dust, not hell fire. In Ezekiel we are told that the sinner shall die, nothing else.

Does that mean instead of fixing the problem God opts for destruction?? What does that say about God?

 

[Bird123]

But that world would appear exactly the same to us as if nothing were created by God and nothing is the result of God's action. So why should anyone else see it as you see it? Why should we assume that everything that happens, happens as an act of God? As opposed to, say, it happening by chance. Or by fate.

What answers do you think we can discover about the why of existence? Because as far as I know, all humanity has ever come up with regarding this question are a few theories. But no answers. Could it be that you've simply convinced yourself that whatever theory you've come up with is your "answer", when it's really just another theory?

And you might be surprised to learn where I've already been.

I think you are content with your own beliefs. All I hear are excuses for inaction. Isn't it the hungry student who finds the most answers the quickest? You might not see this but I have pointed you to a good starting point. Your journey has never been up to me.

 

[Bird123]

1. First off god has the knowledge to know all the possible outcomes. God did everything good for them to make the right choices. God had a perfect plan for them as long as they chose correctly. Even if god knew they would fail god had the best of intentions for his creations as long as they chose correctly, and right now we are currently waiting for god to restore the paradise.
2. Again god created genetics so that we could pass on our perfect offspring, god gave them something good they turned it into something bad. Well when Satan Adam and Eve disobeyed Many questions were raised against god. And as far as I see it, had god destroyed Adam and Eve, it would not have been fair to the righteous people that would come from Adam. So if god created Adam and Eve with no choice to sin, it is no longer free will. If he destroyed them after sinning it is unfair for those who are righteous that come after.

3. So obviously evil exist in the world today. How would you handle murders, rapes, arson, grand theft, battery, and etc... Should their be no consequences. where do we draw the line between "As I see it, your religion values Blaming, Judging, Condemning, Punishing, and maybe Abandonment" When can we have the right to protect our families.

4. Evil exist in the world, no doubt. Explain why, and when will it stop. Is there a god?

Problems go away only after one has learned the lessons.