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Featured How do you define evolution?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by YoursTrue, Jul 29, 2021.

  1. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I find it interesting that you aren't willing to change your views when the evidence points to something else. We have art that is 30,000 years old and various tools going back far before that.

    If you don't know about the dating methods and the checks and balances used to make sure they are accurate, how can you say they are wrong? At most, they simply disagree with your intuition based upon your faith. But that only means your intuition or faith might need to be updated to be in line with the evidence.
     
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  2. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Dating of Tree rings in ancient trees is older than any of your 'belief' based estimates of time. Lake sediment annual lamella in Japanese lake dates over 50,000 years
     
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  3. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    You don't know what my "belief based estimates" of time are. But you claim you do.
     
  4. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    No, I am going to say that the art is not dated correctly. There are reasons for that. The primary reason I read about and reason on is the analyzing of the "canvas," or rock upon which the art has been made. That's like saying that the foundation of a building excavated is the same age as the soil upon which it rests. There are other reasons why the dating of such art is not in harmony with actuality. By actuality, I mean the substance used to date it.
     
  5. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Like I say I'm not a scientist, but are viruses alive? Are chemicals alive?
     
  6. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    From my understanding of things like cave paintings, like I said, I used to believe whatever I was taught about evolution and the history of the human 'race.' But looking at the dating process itself, the soil (on the walls of a cave) is OBVIOUSLY much older than the cave painting.
     
  7. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    Yes? Not sure what that has to do with anything. What issues do you have with cave paintings?
     
  8. ratiocinator

    ratiocinator Lightly seared on the reality grill.

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    Do you really think scientists are that stupid? I had no idea how cave paintings were dated but it took me just a few minutes to find out that you can use radiocarbon dating if the pigments used are organic (charcoal, for example) or you can use uranium-series dating on calcium carbonate crusts that overly the paintings, so are OBVIOUSLY younger than the paintings.
     
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  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Well, ah . . . then start getting serious and real about science. Your fundamentalist Christian view of dating our physical existence based on the Bible, which is faith based, and not science.

    Yes, your religious faith based view is as obvious as the sky is Carolina blue on a clear day at noon on the 4th of July, This is abundantly clear by your own posts. See below in bold.

     
    #209 shunyadragon, Aug 3, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  10. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Its was late and I was on my phone while riding back from Texas.
     
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  11. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    Huh?
     
  12. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    You don't tell us a lot. You just deny all the evidence presented.
     
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  13. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Viruses are a border case. So the answer depends on where you draw an arbitrary line.

    Chemicals are not alive. But they are involved in life, which is a complex collection of chemical reactions.
     
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  14. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I grew up in such a church and I know how hard it is to leave a place whereas I spent so many years in and was very active. I even had thoughts of going into the ministry. But what stopped me was the continuous anti-science sermonizing that also was anti all other non-Protestant denominations and also other religions. It was hard to leave, but the Truth is the Truth, so I had to go with that.

    How about you?
     
  15. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    What do dead sparrows have to do with abiogenesis?

    Do you acknowledge that we can understand how something operates without having to know where it originated? Like, we can study how gravity operates without having to know where/when/how it came from?
     
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  16. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    First, no one really knows what happened when the first cell started "growing". In other words, a cell without life is...dead. and when a sparrow dies, it goes back to the ground, or elements. It can't keep growing. But the point is that regardless of transfer of genes, the organism probably has to be ALIVE to continue, even if mutating. I say probably because I'm not sure what science says about what's dead and what's alive. Once the flesh dies, it's not evolving, that is if one believes in the innate process of forming new species, etc. Can I explain it all? No. And apart from theories sometimes now called law or a sure thing no one really has the answer.
     
  17. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Ok so go over the dating methods. And explain them as you answer questions. See that's what I find, you make assertions and call me ignorant, etc. But don't explain.
     
  18. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Well, should we start by talking about dating methods? There are many, many different types of dating methods, each based on a different physical principle.

    Do you want to emphasize one particular example? Say, the dating of cave paintings? Even there, several different dating methods are used. And the fact that they all agree is part of the evidence we have the right date.
     
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  19. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    One issue is that the line between 'living' and 'non-living' is not as sharp as you seem to think. So you may well have something that is 'not alive', but still shows many of the properties of life.

    I also see some other misunderstandings. For example, individuals do not mutate. So growing and mutating are not related. Mutations happen between one generation to the next. They are a change in genetics. Evolution also does not happen in individuals. So death of 'the flesh' is unrelated to evolution. By the time of death, any changes that would happen have already been passed to the next generation.
     
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  20. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    Was it you who mentioned about the 30,000 year old cave painting? If you have more information about that, please do let me know
     
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