1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured How Do You Believe You bring/make Heaven on Earth.

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Kenny, Aug 15, 2022.

?
  1. Mankind's ingenuity, wisdom and knowledge will make heaven on Earth

    5 vote(s)
    16.1%
  2. Mankind through works or his goodness achieves Heaven or oneness with a Presence/power.

    5 vote(s)
    16.1%
  3. God comes to earth and brings Heaven to earth - it is His capacity and not mankind's

    6 vote(s)
    19.4%
  4. There will never be heaven on earth.

    15 vote(s)
    48.4%
  1. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,279
    Ratings:
    +7,018
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Is it man becoming as gods to make heaven on earth or is it man to through his efforts to become a god or one with a presence, or is it God coming to man to help him make heaven on earth?

    Maybe there are other variations?

    I chose the God coming down to earth to eventually make heaven on earth. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob by the sending of what we call the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world as the answer for the world and its issues.

    Looking at the first option where man is a god and that he has the ultimate answer to today societal problems. As I view today, the results of man and his efforts, I don’t see that as a possible answer even over time.

    With all the technology, capacity and innovation, I don’t see man as having the answers that man needs. As one need is answered others pop up and the problems continue.

    When one answer comes to sickness, another pops up.

    I don’t see that really changing over time which is why I don’t subscribe to option one. (Not that you can’t subscribe to it but I just don’t see it.)

    The second would be that man through any type of works can achieve godhood or be part of the power or a universal presence. Whether by the denial of earthly desires, trying to be free from attachments, or simply trying to be the best person one can be… it just appears to me that we still come short.

    We can maybe enumerate with one hand possible candidates. Buddha, Gandhi, Jesus, and maybe a few others, would be the only ones that perhaps may qualify.

    Looking at my life I know I wouldn’t qualify. Of the thousands I have met over my lifetime, I know they wouldn’t qualify.

    So I can’t see how “working your way up; denying your way up; reincarnating your way up” – just doesn’t seem like a possibility to me. Earth hasn’t progressed so I don’t see that as a viable option even over time.

    Thus, I trust the third way where God comes down and actually lifts us up. Though temporarily we could say “for all the believers in Jesus Christ, the world is still the same”, the ultimate end is that God still comes down and brings Heaven to earth.

    Not by works, not by human ingenuity or human capacity, but as a free gift of love.

    How do you view it?
     
    #1 Kenny, Aug 15, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2022
    • Useful Useful x 3
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36,139
    Ratings:
    +16,360
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    I voted 3, but its partly 1 I think since we are involved and cannot just sit around waiting for God to miracle everything.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Xavier Graham

    Xavier Graham Your local anarchist. God is Love is Love is Love

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2021
    Messages:
    1,185
    Ratings:
    +1,398
    Religion:
    Dharmic/Eastern
    I'm a firm believer that a literal heaven on earth will only manifest through the collective morality of mankind. It just makes sense to me
     
  4. Guitar's Cry

    Guitar's Cry The "I" in Reality

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    15,887
    Ratings:
    +6,799
    Religion:
    Panreligious mystical paganism
    I voted the 2nd, though would've also voted 1st since I think they are tied together.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,279
    Ratings:
    +7,018
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    I think that is a very healthy viewpoint!
     
  6. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    18,279
    Ratings:
    +7,018
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Interesting. How do you think we can get man to agree on a morality code?
     
  7. Xavier Graham

    Xavier Graham Your local anarchist. God is Love is Love is Love

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2021
    Messages:
    1,185
    Ratings:
    +1,398
    Religion:
    Dharmic/Eastern
    I believe there already exists a morality code. Mankind is not the author of it. So it's not a matter of agreeing on one I think, rather, it is mankind abiding by the moral code that was authored by the highest power. I'm not too sure tho
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    15,010
    Ratings:
    +14,745
    Religion:
    zn
    Where is Other?!
    Heaven and hell to me are states of mind.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    23,453
    Ratings:
    +16,826
    Religion:
    atheist
    Voted 4th.
    We need to work on improving what we have, and perfection stands in the way of good.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36,139
    Ratings:
    +16,360
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    So I'll be honest that I think we are in for many more thousands of years of journey. Here is why. We have an internal enemy, and in a way we are part of a journey or expedition looking for the weapons which will vanquish that enemy. Our enemy comes with us everywhere we go. The difficult challenge and the work of God in us is to eliminate the bad without ruining the good. It is like only keeping things that don't burn, but its more delicate than that. Its more like careful archeology. The wheat is easily destroyed along with the chaff, and that goes both for members of the church and for the treasure within people.

    What we see today is marvelous. Some would say that Christ has already achieved much which was hoped for, however all enemies are not vanquished. There remains poverty, suffering of many kinds, death. Men still go to war. We have corruption still breaking out and poor judgments and often very bad leadership -- all of which are part of the enemy within. The enemy rages, for his time is finite, and we are dragging the enemy along towards his doom. Meanwhile we are straining and tired, but we go on.

    I wouldn't say that we are anywhere near to being finished. I'd say that we have plateaued and are reorganizing for the next level of the expedition. I think to go up we will have to change our ways and get ready for a steeper ascent. More is possible, now. Things are sliding into place and new levels of ascent are now possible. With the world the way it is today there is potential to make great leaps. We align ourselves to God, not God to us. We are drawn to God through God's mercy and kindness. We have to put away judgment against other people. We have to identify what it is that has caused continual splits and strife and counter it. It is God who is making us and not we ourselves, but we are not complete except in the fullness of time which only God can see. So there is trouble for now, and I suspect this for more thousands of years.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  11. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2016
    Messages:
    17,311
    Ratings:
    +30,602
    Religion:
    Hindu
    None of the poll choices represent my view.

    A person creates their own hell through chasing after desires and forming attachments to that which is temporary. Heaven is the underlying eternal being/reality that obscured by these attachments and desires.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  12. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    8,613
    Ratings:
    +1,714
    Religion:
    Christian
    Mankind has proven multiple times that we aren't capable of bringing heaven to earth.

    Only God can do that.
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
  13. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,970
    Ratings:
    +1,655
    Religion:
    Areligious Christian
    Well said Xavier.

    Which means, for me, that none of the 4 choices is the answer.
     
  14. Aštra’el

    Aštra’el Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2014
    Messages:
    2,400
    Ratings:
    +1,687
    Religion:
    3127
    It is not in our nature to do such a thing.

    Humanity is too conflicted within. Humans are beautiful.. and humans are terrible. Humans enjoy free will. We choose. We help each other. We fight each other. We love. We hate. We create. We destroy. Humans can not escape our nature, without becoming unhuman. Humanity will never bring about “heaven on earth.” It would take… the intervention of God(s), super intelligent A.I, or some highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization. Even then… it’s doubtful humanity as a whole would even welcome such a transformation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. sun rise

    sun rise Śvāna Dharma
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    73,141
    Ratings:
    +37,533
    Religion:
    Love/Omnism
    My belief is that the God-made world has already been born but is like a breath of coming spring in the middle of winter. As it gathers force, we see all sorts of dark events like the smoke from a just lit fire.

    Right now we have a choice to put our thoughts, words and especially deeds in the service of what has been born to the best of our ability and in spite of our weaknesses.

    So to me, God in the form of the eternal Avatar (or Christ if you prefer) has started the transfiguration process and we're invited to help it progress. And that is my answer to your question.

    As the Mother of the Sri Aurobindo ashram in India put it:

    We are in a very special situation, extremely special, without precedent. We are now witnessing the birth of a new world; it is very young, very weak -- not in its essence but in its outer manifestation -- not yet recognised, not even felt, denied by the majority. But it is here. It is here, making an effort to grow, absolutely *sure* of the result. But the road to it is a completely new road which has never before been traced out -- nobody has gone there, nobody has done that! It is a beginning, a *universal beginning*. So it is an absolutely unexpected and unpredictable adventure.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  16. osgart

    osgart Nothing my eye, Something for sure

    Joined:
    May 1, 2017
    Messages:
    5,098
    Ratings:
    +2,640
    Religion:
    Independently religious with no affiliation
    I don't see any grande purpose in nature. True love and justice seems to always be invisible to the human race at large. I took the fourth option.

    No God is running this ship. WW2 is the evidence for that. No need to look deeper then that about it.

    Each new generation is a new story and a new challenge. History teaches lessons about human nature. Maybe one day another great generation will rise up and learn that they can make great things happen, but I'm not holding my breath for that. Every individual in every generation chooses between false pride or true love. Vanity is still going strong, and corruption abounds. Much needless suffering in the world.

    Life is what you make of it. And if you find a little joy and peace in life, keep it. Life is a fleeting flash in the pan. As bad as it is, life is as good as its ever been. Take nothing for granted. Life is precious. I live and die for love, and I think everything else is meaningless without it. True peace takes a lot of love.
     
  17. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    11,604
    Ratings:
    +10,779
    Religion:
    none
    I voted 1, though with some restrictions, it's just the best fit, not exactly how I'd phrase it.

    I don't like the learned helplessness the religious view teaches. I like to think that we have agency and we can do better. No need to sit on the couch and wait for a higher power to do our work.
    Mankind has a pretty good track record of solving problems. At least it's leagues away from the track record of the gods.
    But it's only a few who participate in the problem solving. Those who don't believe in a magic solution being handed to them by a higher power.

    Oh, and "being like the gods", we're on it. Life expectancy has doubled over the last hundred years and stopping or reversing ageing is on the horizon. According to the bible that is all we need.
     
  18. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle 'Some of you humans are just so funny!'
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    11,084
    Ratings:
    +6,289
    Religion:
    None - agnostic with strong irreligious tendencies.
    As per others, I see the notions of Heaven and Hell as being more about personal existence and as to what we do with our lives - heavily influenced by others too so often. Such that Heaven is not a state that could ever exist on Earth - and not that I can envisage anything like such ever happening. Too many things pushing and pulling us apart for there ever to exist such a state. But I chose 4 because of this, given what was meant by the use of the term Heaven presumably. And perhaps it is quite ironic that the beliefs that supposedly are those involving such a concept (Heaven), these are the very ones that tend to divide us and keep us apart.
     
    #18 Mock Turtle, Aug 16, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  19. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    16,789
    Ratings:
    +10,115
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    I like this topic very much, thank you
    I just thought about starting a topic titled: "(Why/how) do you spread your beliefs?", but no need anymore

    I choose option 1

    Why (my opinion):
    a) ad.4: There will not be "Heaven" (Peace for all), on earth
    b) ad.3: "God" (Full God) won't come to earth, Avatars at the most
    c) ad.2: Man needs God's Grace + Good Works to Realize God individually
    d) ad.1: We need Wisdom/Love (God), as Good Works, to Realize God (ourselves)

    @stvdvRF
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2004
    Messages:
    8,756
    Ratings:
    +2,048
    Religion:
    Øneness
    Having had a NDE; I shouted out I know Oneness from Hell, and God pulled me up through the dimensions to Heaven.

    Heaven was Oneness, and God exists as a 0neness above that.

    Earth is in the middle of the dimensional quantum physics with 7 levels above us, and 7 below - Middle Earth.

    Earth can not be Heaven as it exists in the highest 4 dimensions, and God is the Source of reality; so the Source of reality can not come here, it already is everything, and we exist inside it.

    Yeshua was saying "let it be on earth, as it is in Heaven." - In other words, lets learn to share, unconditionally love, not hate each other, teach each other freely, etc.

    For earth to become like Heaven we need to recognize that Hell is full of the unconditional takers, trying to feed themselves with huge forks, that can not reach their mouths; whereas Heaven is full of the unconditional givers, feeding each other with the same long forks.

    When scripture says the Lord (YHVH Eloh) will come and reign with our people, that is saying in my understanding that a divine being/archangel/avatar (Eloh) will become the Messiah to lead mankind - which I understand we can show was David, Yeshua, and now me, which I believe we can prove from the world's religions as one.
    'We're all like Elohim' (beings breathed by Source), and Children of El Elyon (Highest Source to reality). - Psalms 82:6

    No one can become the Source, not even archangels would ever dream to be so egotistical, as it quantifies our whole reality - like a universal central processor (CPU) calculating our whole reality.

    Thus to answer your question of does God come down here, it is more I've known since 4-5 years old I'm an avatar (archangel) sent from Heaven with my name in the world's religious texts.

    Where I've been sent to explain the Great Deception prior to the Great Tribulation, and after we come to an age of enlightenment; where everyone will then know Source directly, as we will teach advanced meditation again, so people learn to connect to Source directly (Yoga).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
Loading...