1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured How do I say this?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Dec 23, 2015.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    24,075
    Ratings:
    +7,957
    I hate repeated debates and I was thinking of making this a poll so there won't be the same old debate just the answer.

    Playing devil's advocate and hopefully believers will answer please.

    If any abrahamic sacred text is true, and you wanted to support your statements (by debate, by exchange of information, by evangalizing to someone who does not share your faith), what can you use besides the Torah, Quran, and Bible that will help you support what you say?

    What other books besides, say the Book of Mormon, anything written from Bahaullah, etc (what other books that are not connected to your faith) can you use to support your side (regardless of what the debate may be about)?
     
  2. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    29,091
    Ratings:
    +14,868
    Religion:
    Beyond the Light
    I've always felt that quoting so-called "sacred" texts is akin to cheating. Heaven forbid people try to elucidate their own thoughts with their own words, eh?
     
    • Like Like x 5
  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    24,075
    Ratings:
    +7,957
    Yeah. I keep thinking that if it's in your own words and you are a believer, then basically, you are scripture. I always wanted to see a debate or conversation supported by other sources. If any belief is true, regardless of what it is, it should have multiple sources to support it's accuracy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    45,730
    Ratings:
    +14,308
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    I convinced myself a while ago that a person can hardly claim religious adherence unless he or she has managed to at least dabble into expressing doctrine in his or her own words, writing his or her own scripture, and explaining to others when said scripture is useful and applicable, when it is not, and why.

    That would not make the beliefs of said person correct, but there would at least be something to consider.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Thana

    Thana Lady

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    3,099
    Ratings:
    +754
    Heaps. Heaps and heaps. We (at my home) have a ridiculous collection of books, somewhat notable are books by A.W Tozer and Frances J Roberts and there's some pretty deep respect for the works of certain Rabbi's and people like Baal Shem Tov. There have been plenty of Prophets since those in the bible so plenty of works to share and study.
     
  6. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    24,075
    Ratings:
    +7,957
    Have you used non religious books to support your conversations when it comes to your faith?
     
  7. Thana

    Thana Lady

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    3,099
    Ratings:
    +754
    Oh totally, but you learn pretty quick that it's a waste of time and not to bother. They don't want to hear it. But I respect that.
     
  8. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    24,075
    Ratings:
    +7,957
    They don't? What type of books do you use that aren't religious?

    I mean, in the Bible it is direct "I am the Lord your God don't believe anyone but me." In other books that are not religious, what books do you use that says the same thing? Which books scream out your faith without needing to explain it (given them reason to deny your claims)?
     
  9. Thana

    Thana Lady

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    3,099
    Ratings:
    +754
    Well obviously there are no non-religious books that claim God is real but some specific beliefs I can use non-religious literature to express, explain or give creedence to. For example I used to get in a lot of debates about Trinitarianism and there is plenty of non-religious literature that attempts to disprove it.
     
  10. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    24,075
    Ratings:
    +7,957
    Yeah. I tried looking up what books prooves god exist that aren't religious. All I got was those what tried to proove he doesn't. I'm sure if he does (just thinking outloud) then there would be outside support as well that wouldn't need subjective explanation. The Bible just says it plain out. I dont know not having outside support makes the Bible less creditable or any religiou book for that matter. Though, I would think it would raise some questions.
     
  11. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    36,824
    Ratings:
    +13,793
    Religion:
    Love
    I try very hard to not have a "side" against someone else's "side" because such debates 99% of the time don't change anyone's mind. Most of the time two people try futilely to convince each other and fail. I prefer to use the other person's frame-of-reference and discuss from within it. For Muslims, I'd refer to Hadith, the sayings of Muhammad. For Catholics, especially the life and words of St. Francis and books about him such as "Sun and Moon over Assisi" as well as other saints. For Jews, my "go to" person is typically the Baal Shem Tov. For Buddhists perhaps the life of Milirepa, zen sayings and so forth.

    If a rare person is interested in just finding out what other people believe to broaden their understanding, I might use any scripture, poetry, music even movies which illustrate my understanding since I don't identify with any exoteric religious system.

    If and when the truly rare person comes along who is interested in my viewpoint rather than trying to convert me to his or hers, that is another matter.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Thana

    Thana Lady

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Messages:
    3,099
    Ratings:
    +754
    Not really.
    And you can't really get outside support because you either are or you aren't a Theist. The only thing close to outside support you can get is Agnosticism, And I wouldn't call that support rather just not an outright denial.
     
  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    45,730
    Ratings:
    +14,308
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    Just out of curiosity, have you had the opportunity to communicate in terms of the Four Noble Truths or of the basic concepts of Buddhism (Sunyata, Anatta, etc)?


    And it sort of teaches its own way, I assume.
     
  14. DawudTalut

    DawudTalut Peace be upon you.

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    4,850
    Ratings:
    +1,351
    Religion:
    Islam DIR
    Peace be on you.
    The Book written inside people, called Conscience.
    The Book written all over heavens and earth, called nature.
     
  15. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Messages:
    15,613
    Ratings:
    +4,133
    Religion:
    my own religion
    For me all scriptures are just plain words, the words mean nothing, unless one see's where the words point to, the ignorant cannot see this, and so the words become just a belief and nothing more. See beyond the mere words, is to see the truth within the mere words, but that isn't as easy as it sounds, most will adhere to the mere words and not get anything other than that, yes its sad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    36,824
    Ratings:
    +13,793
    Religion:
    Love
    Rarely have I mentioned them to others. A long time ago I spent some time learning about both Zen and Tibetan Buddhism and more recently reading fun books such as "it's funny, you don't look Buddhist" about being a Buddhist and an observant Jew at the same time. To me the Four Noble Truths are a beautiful frame-of-reference to understand the world and to approach a path for those so inclined.
     
  17. Gharib

    Gharib I want Khilafah back

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2008
    Messages:
    10,213
    Ratings:
    +680
    Religion:
    Islam
    Scientists agree with the Qur'an, the universe is expanding.

    "And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander."
    (Qur'an 51:47)


    "In 1929 Edwin Hubble, working at the Carnegie Observatories in Pasadena, California, measured the redshifts of a number of distant galaxies. He also measured their relative distances by measuring the apparent brightness of a class of variable stars called Cepheids in each galaxy. When he plotted redshift against relative distance, he found that the redshift of distant galaxies increased as a linear function of their distance. The only explanation for this observation is that the universe was expanding."


    http://skyserver.sdss.org/dr1/en/astro/universe/universe.asp



     
  18. Neo Deist

    Neo Deist Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Messages:
    3,383
    Ratings:
    +2,122
    Religion:
    Deism
    You make it rather difficult with those parameters, especially for Christians! Religion is one of those things where you're either a believer or you're not. If you are a believer, your writings are more than likely going to be based on what your holy book talks about, which means everything is preconceived. If you are not a believer and are writing about religion, most likely it will be why you don't believe or you attempt to disprove religious claims.

    Then you have deism. We have no holy book. We don't rely on divine revelation. We don't have prophets throughout the ages making miraculous claims, even though they are always ALONE when they were supposedly contacted/visited (how convenient...no witnesses). Instead, we use logic and human senses to analyze the world around us as well as the cosmos, and in the end come to the conclusion that we believe in God because of our personal observations of nature. It ends there as anything more is personal opinion/interpretation.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2014
    Messages:
    8,809
    Ratings:
    +4,472
    Religion:
    spiritual anti-theist : )
    Back to the OP,

    If verifiable, predictive evidence existed, we'd have had already heard of it.
     
  20. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    16,054
    Ratings:
    +1,777
    Reason to the extent it could reasonably lead one; and in the same sense, common sense, arguments, signs, peaceful dialogue, inter-faith dialogue, love.
    Regards
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...