How Do Disagreements Affect You?

[osgart]

A disagreement is an impasse but ad hom's are another matter. Anyone ad homineming me i find to be destructive by nature. Whether they are right or wrong becomes meaningless when they can not handle their own emotions.

Gotta love those attempts at personal ins on you attacks from a block of text. Freaks me out when they think they know you so well off a block of text.

I dont do debates because at the end of the day either you learn something or you do not from posters.

Experts always have interesting things to say. So disagreeing with an expert is like sticking your neck out if you have no expertise in what they say.

It is difficult and challenging when someone tries to break your intuitions. But i enjoy it! Its better than talking to the choir.

Wieldy experts though are obnoxious. The popular ridicule method i find only entrenches people more in what they already think no matter what facts are expressed.

The assumptions, and presuppositions on all sides of these arguments amazes me.

This is the second forum i have ever gotten into. Hate filled agendas seem to be common.

This is all experimental for me. I do not talk about many of these things in real life. I tend to be honest and impersonal.

 

[siti]

The popular ridicule method i find only entrenches people more in what they already think no matter what facts are expressed.

In their comments - but sometimes the goal is to reach minds.

 

[sun rise]

NIMBY!

It's the bureaucratic way and I know you endorse bureaucracy in all its glorious forms whereever it is to be found.

[Construction Supervisor] What do you man -- why's it got to be built? It's a bypass! You've got to build bypasses. You were quite entitled to make any suggestions or protests at the appropriate time.

[Arthur Dent] Appropriate time?! The first I heard about it was when a workman arrived at the door yesterday. I thought he'd come to clean the windows. And he told me he'd come to demolish the house! Oh, he didn't tell me straightaway, of course. No, first he wiped a couple of windows and charged me a fiver! Then he told me!

[Construction Supervisor] But, Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the planning office for the last nine months!

[Arthur Dent] Oh, yes, of course. As soon as I heard, I went straight round to see them. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call much attention to them, have you? Like telling anybody, or anything?

[Construction Supervisor] But the plans were on display!

[Arthur Dent] On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar!

[Construction Supervisor] That's the display department!

[Arthur Dent] With a torch!

[Construction Supervisor] The lights are probably out.

[Arthur Dent] So had the stairs!

[Construction Supervisor] But you did see the notice, didn't you?

[Arthur Dent] Oh, yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign outside the door saying, "Beware of the leopard!"

 

[osgart]

In their comments - but sometimes the goal is to reach minds.

That could backfire often. There is plenty of information on the internet that the one ridiculed will just find more ammo to convince themselves of whatever it is they are convicted to.

Perhaps ridicule is best served in defending a moral or principle that one cherishes.

 

[siti]

That could backfire often. There is plenty of information on the internet that the one ridiculed will just find more ammo to convince themselves of whatever it is they are convicted to.

Perhaps ridicule is best served in defending a moral or principle that one cherishes.

Perhaps, but I'm afraid I tend to have a more liberal attitude when it comes to ridicule. And I ain't the first to suggest it as a perfectly proper way of debating and - perhaps...perchance...even teaching/learning...

Anthony Ashley-Cooper (3rd Earl of Shaftesbury), for example, wrote “Truth, ’tis suppos’d, may bear all Lights: and one of those principal Lights or natural Mediums, by which Things are to be view’d, in order to a thorow Recognition, is Ridicule it-self” ~ Characteristicks of Men, Manners, Opinions, Times (1711)

Even Thomas Jefferson suggested that “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816

A few years ago, Richard Dawkins urged his largely atheist audience to "mock" and "ridicule" those who professed belief in the trans-substantiation of bread wafers in the Christian sacrament of the Eucharist.

Ridicule has a long and continuing pedigree in the argumentation arsenals of "rational skeptics" of various shades - and I reckon it can still be a valid debating tactic and even teaching tool (as long as it used sparingly and tactfully enough)...but...

We have to be very careful that in shining the torch of ridicule on the beliefs of others we don't fail to spot the ridiculous in our own points of view. If I want to help someone to a more enlightened understanding by making a fool of them, I'd better be equally willing to be made a fool of by someone more enlightened than I am.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[osgart]

Perhaps, but I'm afraid I tend to have a more liberal attitude when it comes to ridicule. And I ain't the first to suggest it as a perfectly proper way of debating and - perhaps...perchance...even teaching/learning...

Anthony Ashley-Cooper (3rd Earl of Shaftesbury), for example, wrote “Truth, ’tis suppos’d, may bear all Lights: and one of those principal Lights or natural Mediums, by which Things are to be view’d, in order to a thorow Recognition, is Ridicule it-self” ~ Characteristicks of Men, Manners, Opinions, Times (1711)

Even Thomas Jefferson suggested that “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions." - Letter to Francis Adrian Van der Kemp, 30 July, 1816

A few years ago, Richard Dawkins urged his largely atheist audience to "mock" and "ridicule" those who professed belief in the trans-substantiation of bread wafers in the Christian sacrament of the Eucharist.

Ridicule has a long and continuing pedigree in the argumentation arsenals of "rational skeptics" of various shades - and I reckon it can still be a valid debating tactic and even teaching tool (as long as it used sparingly and tactfully enough)...but...

We have to be very careful that in shining the torch of ridicule on the beliefs of others we don't fail to spot the ridiculous in our own points of view. If I want to help someone to a more enlightened understanding by making a fool of them, I'd better be equally willing to be made a fool of by someone more enlightened than I am.

Feel free to disagree.

Its a proper defense when called for. Usually its best served against those that are offensive, obnoxious, and belittling.

In the proper spirit of authority there is a right way, and a wrong way of doing it.

 

[Quagmire]

I usually assume the other person is better educated than I am, which means they're probably wrong.

 

[Revoltingest]

I usually assume the other person is better educated than I am, which means they're probably wrong.

I have a better idea...
When anyone disagrees with you, just threaten to ban them.

 

[Quagmire]

I have a better idea...
When anyone disagrees with you, just threaten to ban them.

Outside of RF that just confuses people.

 

[Revoltingest]

Outside of RF that just confuses people.

The fools!

 

[siti]

Outside of RF that just confuses people

Whereas inside people are already confused anyway.

 

[David1967]

Disagreements don't effect me at all..... I simply hunt them down and maul them until they are more agreeable

Well not all of us have the advantage of 5 inch fangs and razor sharp claws to defend ourselves with. So that's easy for you to say.

 

[David1967]

Aww, what a cute bear, don't you agree?

I'm sorry, but that smile is the stuff nightmares are made of.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

Are there any other INTJ women here?

I just wanted to check something. I sometimes feel that my logical, rational and masculine style of expression can be like a red rag to a bull when it comes to some guys. It's like they can't figure me out and they try to push me into making a stereotypical display of emotion, or they question my knowledge or integrity when they wouldn't push so hard with another guy or a woman of a different personality type. Does that happen to you and if so what do think the underlying cause is?

 

[BSM1]

It's the bureaucratic way and I know you endorse bureaucracy in all its glorious forms whereever it is to be found.

[Construction Supervisor] What do you man -- why's it got to be built? It's a bypass! You've got to build bypasses. You were quite entitled to make any suggestions or protests at the appropriate time.

[Arthur Dent] Appropriate time?! The first I heard about it was when a workman arrived at the door yesterday. I thought he'd come to clean the windows. And he told me he'd come to demolish the house! Oh, he didn't tell me straightaway, of course. No, first he wiped a couple of windows and charged me a fiver! Then he told me!

[Construction Supervisor] But, Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the planning office for the last nine months!

[Arthur Dent] Oh, yes, of course. As soon as I heard, I went straight round to see them. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call much attention to them, have you? Like telling anybody, or anything?

[Construction Supervisor] But the plans were on display!

[Arthur Dent] On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar!

[Construction Supervisor] That's the display department!

[Arthur Dent] With a torch!

[Construction Supervisor] The lights are probably out.

[Arthur Dent] So had the stairs!

[Construction Supervisor] But you did see the notice, didn't you?

[Arthur Dent] Oh, yes. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet, stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign outside the door saying, "Beware of the leopard!"

This came to mind...

 

[Revoltingest]

Are there any other INTJ women here?

I just wanted to check something. I sometimes feel that my logical, rational and masculine style of expression can be like a red rag to a bull when it comes to some guys. It's like they can't figure me out and they try to push me into making a stereotypical display of emotion, or they question my knowledge or integrity when they wouldn't push so hard with another guy or a woman of a different personality type. Does that happen to you and if so what do think the underlying cause is?

Dang...that's what INTJ women endure?
I must be one then.

 

[Bethsheba Ashe]

Dang...that's what INTJ women endure?
I must be one then.

Only when I'm in Te mode.

 

[osgart]

Are there any other INTJ women here?

I just wanted to check something. I sometimes feel that my logical, rational and masculine style of expression can be like a red rag to a bull when it comes to some guys. It's like they can't figure me out and they try to push me into making a stereotypical display of emotion, or they question my knowledge or integrity when they wouldn't push so hard with another guy or a woman of a different personality type. Does that happen to you and if so what do think the underlying cause is?

I have never been a woman before but that sounds like its on them. Maybe they feel more secure to have you fit their mold and stereotype of what a woman ought be. I think more and more women are as bold as ever. That kind of guy attitude is going extinct, or at least it should.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I switched to this kind & sophisticated looking avatar for the same reason.

It intimidates me. You remind me of Michael Flatley, Lord of the Dance.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Only when it makes you look good.

So it is never about me. Ah well. I still have...Ah well.