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Featured How different Great Religions are?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Why can't religions begin as folklore, bedtime stories and legends?
     
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  2. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Or its the rebirth part that's really the true mesage and the resurrection part that is the false one?
     
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  3. Segev Moran

    Segev Moran Well-Known Member

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    Most of the differences are due to people changing the religion to fit their own beliefs.
    For example, Christianity and Islam, are based on the main idea of one God, but they changed the Jewish beliefs to fit their needs.
    All monotheistic religions speak of the one God, the other religions describe spiritual concepts that in a way try to describe a similar story of a spiritual realm that was the source for the physical one.
    This is not true.
    The reincarnation is one of the core ideas of the Jewish religion.
    It is true that there is the concept of the resurrection, but it is the end result and one is not dead until resurrected.
    Manifestation is a concept that is not described in the Jewish religion. actually, according to the Jewish bible it is not possible and not something God will ever do.
    Yes! we call it freedom of choice.
    Many stories in the bible (OT) describe just that. how people could not have accepted the truth causing many weird things to be allowed. this causes to this day many people to think the bible presents wrong and harsh set of rules. this is far from the truth.
    I think that eventually, people will follow a religion that fits their beliefs and not choose to believe what a religion offers.
    This is one of the hardest things to accept in the Jewish religion.
    The Jewish religion claims it is better not to practice "Mizvas" than practicing the wrong ones.
    This is why the Jewish religion is filled with things you should not do and not only things you should do.
     
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  4. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Why do some religions and their practices get outlawed? But, if you want, do you want to go to a snake handling Church service this weekend? Or, maybe a ceremony where a virgin is sacrificed to the Sun God?

    But really, why do Baha'is make such a big deal about there has to be one source? Could it be that one source is the God that Baha'is believe in? So now you're stuck trying to convince everyone how all contradictory religious beliefs can be reconciled. Then comes the usual... people misinterpreted the original words. People added their own tradition on to the original teachings. And what else do Baha'is believe happened to separate the different religions from their original meaning?
     
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  5. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    A similar question can be asked of Judaism. Who founded it? Certainly not Moses. He built on something that was already there. The belief in One God. But Baha'is don't believe the mythology of Creation, a literal Flood, the parting of the seas, the plagues against Egypt. So where did all that come from? God or the minds of the religious leaders of the people? Why couldn't they have invented the stories, the myths and legends, and their traditions that make them are their God special.

    But their story and their mythology has nothing to do with other people's story and their interactions with the gods they created to explain their place in the universe.
     
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  6. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately, this goes back to your thread on "infallibility". The Baha'i doctor is the only one who knows what's wrong, and he is the only one who knows how to fix it. The other religions have gotten lost along the way. Baha'is have pretty much said that those other religions have gone through their spring, summer, and fall... and our now slowly dying in their winter. Since Hinduism is the oldest, sorry, you guys are probably so much in your winter you're frozen. But, poor Christians too. They barely got going and then in 600 some years Muhammad, the new "Great" doctor gave a new prescription.
     
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  7. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Hi CG! Good to see you enjoying yourself.
     
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  8. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, tribal people figuring out where they came and where they go when they die. Maybe a few hallucinogens or even just dreams and a story is born. Like how did we get fire? It coyote that brought it to us. He saw that people were cold in winter and there meat was frozen. Or, how do we make sure we will have good crops? The gods probably needs us to sacrifice and animal to them... like a goat. Definitely not coyote. He helped us.

    But Baha'is can't have it that way. They need their one God to be the one behind everything. That God has to be the originator of every religion, or their religion doesn't make sense. That's there "fundamentalism". Just like some Christians are stuck believing everything very literal in the Bible. If those Christians doubt Creation or doubt the Resurrection, their religion falls apart. Baha'is will not and can not have all the major religions have any other source.

    The smaller ones, however, they are different. They can have human origins, but even then they try and tie their God into it. Like with the Mormons. I doubt that Baha'is believe the Book of Mormon is from their God, but they say that Joseph Smith was told that he would see Christ, I think it was, if he lived to I believe it was 1892.
     
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  9. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    So you still can’t appreciate that the Bible is a spiritual Book written to ecucate our souls and that it employs methods such as parables , metaphors, symbols and stories to convey an inner spiritual meaning or moral lesson?

    This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand" (Matthew 13:11-13).

    If you examine all the stories in the Bible they are mainly about God’s relationship with man, how to know Him and what we gain or lose by it. Noah and the flood is about accepting or rejecting God as is Adam and Eve.

    And laws are given for our well being and that of our society which are in plain language and clear to understand.

    But it seems in this age of materialism the ability to understand the heavenly spiritual language of the Holy Books has been lost altogether.
     
  10. Workman

    Workman UNIQUE

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    Division was why God sent his Only Beloved Son..

    “Perhaps men think that it is peace which I have come to cast upon the world, they do not know that it is division I have come to cast upon the earth, fire, sword and war, for there will be 5 in the house, and it will be a matter of 3 against 2, and 2 against 3, father against son, and son against father, and they will stand as a solidarity.
     
  11. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but you know the problem. What stories are true about Creation, Noah and the Flood and Moses and the Exodus? I call it myth. Embellished religious stories about a people. But Baha'is can't allow that. If the story has anything in it that sounds mythical, it is explained away by saying it was meant to be symbolic. But since there are so many "mythical" sounding stories in the Bible, then... are they all symbolic?

    Daniel's friends in the fiery furnace? Jonah being swallowed by a big fish? The Sun stopping in the sky? Samson and his long hair? Anyway, how much difference is there in a mythical story and a symbolic story? They both can have a spiritual lesson. And they both have nothing, or very little to do with historical events. But Baha'is make it sound like God wanted the story written as if true, and to do what? Baha'is seem to be saying that God wanted to test the people to see if they would get the "true" hidden meaning? So that the wrong message was the obvious, literal, as if the event really took place meaning? Isn't that a little deceptive of God?

    Yes, I am enjoying these debates with all you Baha'is. There was so much I like about your religion... until it gets into the subtleties of your beliefs. That's where I have issues. You can do all the other stuff you want. And I hope you are doing them. Like bringing peace to the world. Like getting rid of the extremes of wealth and poverty. Unfortunately, in the U.S. we have a lot of problems, and I don't hear much from Baha'is. Where are you? I thought you were a religion of deeds and not words? We have people fighting to get environmental changes going. We have Central Americans seeking asylum, and instead, they are held in cages. Where is the outcry from Baha'is? Are you here to bring positive change or not? Changes that you say your religion stands for.

    But it sounds more like Baha'is are holding back. They are waiting. Waiting on the sidelines for it all to crumble. And then you'll make your move and fix the world and usher in the peaceful, golden age? You know I was told the "lessor" peace the Baha'is talked about would be here by the year 2000. But, I guess that was only "Pilgrim Notes" and not official. So is there anything official? Your Baha'i Peace Statement did what? It's been more than 30 years. Does the world care? Do the Baha'is care? Trying to convince people in other religions that there religion is identical with the others isn't going to convince very many people. In fact, they are probably quite happy that their religion isn't like some of the others. Anyway, I do enjoy the threads started by Baha'is, so I guess you are doing somethings I like after all. Keep it up.
     
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  12. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    How much of the Bible and the NT do you believe is actual, and accurate, historical narrative? I wouldn't doubt that if you read it you could find things you wouldn't believe, and therefore, declare them symbolic. Hmmm, the story of Job is a good example of God's relationship with a man that was doing rather well. So God decided to let Satan mess with him. Nice lesson. I know you don't believe it, but the NT kind of tells the story that without Jesus, people will be thrown into hell fire. And how many will he thrown into hell? Few are chosen? No, few are chosen that choose Jesus. Most are going to burn. Great.

    So, hopefully, you are right and all that is symbolic. 'Cause any Creator God that is that mean to punish the people he made... made with very little ability to do good, and then blame them and get mad at them for being so pitifully evil, that's not right. He made people that way. All the suffering. All the pain. All the wars. It's just a test? A test to see if we will believe in him and trust that he loves us and will make things better... and judge the evil doers? It's been more than 200 years and the evil doers are still here. Were the prophecies about an everlasting peace just symbolic? No, I can't appreciate what the Bible promises if it doesn't materialize.
     
  13. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    How much of the Bible and the NT do you believe is actual, and accurate, historical narrative? I wouldn't doubt that if you read it you could find things you wouldn't believe, and therefore, declare them symbolic. Hmmm, the story of Job is a good example of God's relationship with a man that was doing rather well. So God decided to let Satan mess with him. Nice lesson. I know you don't believe it, but the NT kind of tells the story that without Jesus, people will be thrown into hell fire. And how many will he thrown into hell? Few are chosen? No, few are chosen that choose Jesus. Most are going to burn. Great.

    So, hopefully, you are right and all that is symbolic. 'Cause any Creator God that is that mean to punish the people he made... made with very little ability to do good, and then blame them and get mad at them for being so pitifully evil, that's not right. He made people that way. All the suffering. All the pain. All the wars. It's just a test? A test to see if we will believe in him and trust that he loves us and will make things better... and judge the evil doers? It's been more than 200 years and the evil doers are still here. Were the prophecies about an everlasting peace just symbolic? No, I can't appreciate what the Bible promises if it doesn't materialize.
    I almost missed this. The Laws? We've talked about stoning people for breaking God's laws. Sure, easy to understand language. If you break the law you'll be stoned to death. Yet, people still broke the laws. Others were above the laws. Like King David. Or, never mind, I'm sure that was only a "symbolic" affair he had. It wasn't a real historical event... right? Hey, have a good night. I look forward to your responses.
     
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  14. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Yes I enjoy these conversations too. To me I see the Bible as a heavenly Book written in parables, metaphors, symbols and stories to educate our hearts and souls but often it uses spiritual language which I believe in this age of materialism we have lost the art of understanding so a lot of it sounds like gibberish.

    But stories like Adam and Eve and the flood are all about our relationship with God. The entire Bible is about God’s education.

    Other stories I think we can find many morals to assist us in our daily lives such as David and Goliath. There are laws to assist us how to live our lives and run our society, I’m thinking of the Ten Commandments still some of them are law today.

    Then there’s the Beautitudes which encourage us to be noble and humble beings. There’s a wealth of spiritual enlightenment and nourishment for our hearts and souls in the Bible.

    And then there’s the deeply mystical passages regarding Christ’s return which are deliberately written in such a manner because as a proof of His return He will unseal the meanings and we believe the Book of Certitude unsealed the Books.

    So the Bible to me is not one thing but a world of beauty, majesty and glory at one time offering us to be God’s child, at another helping us understand how to love and treat each other and how to be spiritual. And enshrined is a promise that one day we will have peace. But for peace to happen we must all work for it as it involves all of us.

    Have you read the recent letter of thr Universal House of Justice Jan 18? They go into the history of efforts to establish world peace and alsomthe Peace Message and its response.and they seem to place us entering into another dark period as was just before the first and second world wars which resulted in the formation of the League of Nations and the UN however they hinted that after this coming dark period a lasting peace would be established. So fasten your seat belt for a rocky ride.

    Remember you don’t have to be a Baha’i to work for world peace.

    18 January 2019 – To the Bahá’ís of the World | Bahá’í Reference Library

    Actually reading this letter it was strange to get such a letter now and also the letter appeared more for the public than Baha’is although it was addressed to us. It’s very well written.

    I find this is like a kind of online fireside and it seems to be one of those firesides where nobody wants to go home. I remember it was getting real late and we were like a child in a chocolate factory except we never got full or sick and wanted more and more.
     
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  15. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    To try and understand even some of the Bible is not easy. If it is laws such as the Ten Commandments then it’s straight forward.

    For deeply mystical passages i turn to the Book of Certitude which gives clear keys to unlock the meanings.

    Hell?

    They say: “Where is Paradise, and where is Hell?” Say: “The one is reunion with Me; the other thine own self, O thou who dost associate a partner with God and doubtest.”
    Baha’u’llah Epistle to the son of the wolf)
     
  16. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    This is one of the things all Gods Faiths have in common. The few that accept the change and then try to put it into practice and to share that change with all people, being asked to do much more, by those that have not accepted it.

    Ironical is it not :D That Document,"Promise of World Peace", released in 1985 had great vision, yet it is still ignored, for how long will it all go unheeded?

    In that way all Faiths have suffered the same since the dawn of day and the bible gives this advice;

    Galatians 6:7"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap."

    Regards Tony
     
    #36 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  17. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    The golden rule is quite universal, also outside of religions...
     
  18. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    @sayak83 , @Vinayaka , @ManSinha, @Valjean,

    No, I don't think identical teaching is stretch, and I tell you why by giving you an example, to show what i mean by teachings.

    For example Buddha said, the one of defilements is going after gold:


    "There are some ascetics and brahmins who accept gold
    and silver and do not refrain from receiving gold and silver.
    This is the third defilement of ascetics and brahmins because
    of which some ascetics and brahmins do not shine, blaze, and
    radiate." Buddha

    Now, Bahaullah, Jesus, or Muhammad and other Manifestations said the same thing:

    He is the true servant of God, who, in this day, were he to pass through cities of silver and gold, would not deign to look upon them, and whose heart would remain pure and undefiled from whatever things can be seen in this world, be they its goods or its treasures. " Bahaullah

    When we look at these two quotes, they are identical teachings, even though they are different wordings.
    We can surely find same teaching from Muhammad, Krishna, or Zoroaster, and Jesus. They may not be the same wording, but does that mean they are not identical teachings?


    Moreover, for example, Jesus said only through Him, they can come to Father. This is an exclusive claim. But Buddha, also said in essence same thing. He said only by practicing his teachings they can become liberated and go to heaven. Now, if we consider, the same person spoke through Them, we just note the differences is only relate to their mission. Jesus appeared among Jews, with a different culture than Hindus. So, He presented Himself in different ways than Buddha, yet, their essential teachings are identical. Another example is drinking alcohol. All those Manifestations did not approve drinking alcohol as a good thing.
     
    #38 InvestigateTruth, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  19. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Note the word 'some'. There are also lots of ascetics that don't accept gold. The UHJ should give back those many years of donations, if it were to follow this. Or is that they don't accept your gold?
     
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  20. ManSinha

    ManSinha Well-Known Member

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    The main example in that post is not terribly practical

    For most individuals who live in the modern world earning money is a necessity - so that particular saying has little meaning - now if it said "Do not do it out of greed or to excess ....."

    Not every one can live on the largesse of others
     
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