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Featured How did Isaiah 52:13 predict that the Messiah Jesus would be crucified "lifted up"?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 74x12, Mar 20, 2018.

  1. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Wisdom will always bite. Always. It’s metaphoric for the pain of letting go of thinking and actions that no longer serve us.
     
  2. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe it does not become so just because you say so. I speaking as God say it is my word.
     
  3. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the serpent represents sin which is what was nailed to the cross.
     
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  4. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    “Mythic” doesn’t mean “fake” or “pretend.” It’s a particular genre of literature, like poetry, fiction, narrative. Mythic literature speaks truth in ways that are vivid, larger-than-life, and metaphoric. It’s not because “I say so,” it’s because that’s what it is. You wouldn’t have a problem with me classifying the gospels as “narrative.” There should be no problem with the classification of “mythic.”
     
  5. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe all one had to do was look at the serpent. That means salvation came by grace not by keeping a law.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Or, the serpent represents the wisdom of Jesus’ self-sacrifice.
     
  7. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe the serpent stands for worldly wisdom which often paves the way for sin. Jesus transcends that wisdom with the wisdom of God who knows all things.
     
  8. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

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    I believe as you stated some of the Bible can be vivid, larger than life and metaphoric but I would not categorize the whole of scripture that way.

    Myth is a folklore genre consisting of narratives that play a fundamental role in society, Wikipedia.

    I believe the Bible is not folklore.
     
  9. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Then why is the serpent an almost universal symbol for wisdom, and why would the biblical metaphors reject that particular symbol?
     
  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    You have to look to the roots or the origin. The serpent is a symbol of wisdom because it was the serpent that first tempted us with the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. So, if the Bible is true and the serpent literally tempted Eve in the garden; then we would expect the serpent to be a universal symbol of wisdom.
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I wouldn’t either. But the texts that are... are.

    The creation myths are certainly folklore, for they come to us from several different cultures prior to the ancient Hebraic people. The flood epic certainly is, for it is a retelling of Gilgamesh, a prior bit of folklore from the Sumerian culture.

    You might enjoy some reading by a scholar friend of mine — Victor Matthews. Look for Old Testament Parallels: Laws And Syories from the Ancient Near East.
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Except that the symbol is much older than than the creation myth. The creation myth makes use of the symbol because it is a well-known metaphor.
     
  13. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I already talked about the symbol or archetype as used in the ancient middle East by the Sumerians, Canaanites etc. I don't believe the creation account is a myth. I believe it's true and so these cultures simply are remembering aspects of it in different ways. If it is true then it only makes sense that they would remember it.
     
  14. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    In Matthew 24:35, Jesus says, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away."

    Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." ... In the context, these are literal works, not borrowed clothes.

    You either take the yoke of Jesus and learn from Him,
    Or you take the yoke of the black horse rider... those balances are a yoke.
     
  15. OtherSheep

    OtherSheep of Jesus.

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    John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him,
    "Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life."​
    John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me:"
     
  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    It doesn’t matter what you believe; it matters what it is. I never claimed it wasn’t true, but it’s highly doubtful that it’s factual — and it’s certainly not history.
     
  17. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    You do believe it. You just don't believe it's literal? It's like a parable?
     
  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Of course it’s not literal.
    No, it’s not “like a parable.” It’s a myth. They are two different literary forms.
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I understand. Thanks. You believe it's a traditional story meant to explain why things are the way they are. A parable on the other hand is a simile.

    So do you believe that scriptures are inspired by the holy Spirit?
     
  20. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    How did Isaiah 52: 13; predict that the Messiah Jesus would be crucified, “Lifted up”?

    How did any of the prophesies predict the events of the life of Jesus?

    Psalms 2: 7; He said to me: “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” Hebrews 5: 5; In the same way, Christ did not take upon himself the honour of being high priest. Instead God said to him, “You are my Son, today I have become your father.”

    Psalms 22: 1; “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me.” Matthew 27: 46.

    Psalms 22: 18; “They gamble for my cloths and divide them among themselves.” Matthew 27: 35; And when they had crucified him they divided his garment among themselves by casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets etc.

    Psalms 40: 6; Sacrifices and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. (7) Then said I. Lo I am come; in the volume of the book it is written of me, etc. Hebrews 10: 5-7; For this reason, when Christ was about to come into this world, He said to God: “You do not want sacrifices and offerings, but a body you have prepared for me. You are not pleased with animals burnt whole on the alter or with sacrifices to take away sins. Then I said, “Here I am to do your will O God, just as it is written of me in the book of the law.

    Psalms 69: 21; When I was thirsty, they offered me vinegar. Matthew 27: 48.

    Psalms 91: 12; They (The angels) will hold you up with their hands to keep you from hurting your feet on the stones. Matthew 4: 6; and the devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning you: and in their hands they shall bear you up, least at any time you dash your foot against a stone.”

    Psalms 107: 28-30; Then in their trouble they called to the Lord, and he saved them from their distress. He calmed the raging storm and the waves became quite. They were glad because of the calm, and he brought them safe to the shore. See Mark 4: 37-39.

    Psalms 110: 1; The Lord said to my Lord, the king, “Sit here at my right until I put your enemies under your feet.” See Matthew 22: 44.

    Psalms 110: 4; The Lord made a solemn promise and will not take it back: “You will be a priest forever in the line of succession to Melchizedek.” Hebrew 5: 5-10; after he had been brought to perfection through suffering, God declared him to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, which happened as he rose from the bapt6ismal waters and the heavenly voice was heard to say, “You are my beloved in whom I am pleased, Today I have become your Father. See the more ancient authorities of Luke 3: 22; before it was corrupted.

    Psalms 118: 22; The stone which the builders rejected as worthless turned out to be the most important of all. See Mark 12: 10-11.

    Psalms 118: 26; Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. See Matthew 21: 9.

    These are but some that are claimed to be fulfilled by Jesus.
     
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