How did Christianity kill longstanding paganism in Europe?

[Deeje]

You just don't get it Deeje... The Church was filled with God's Holy Spirit since Pentecost, the bible book was just an add on, and your dependence on Sola Scriptura is blasphemy.

In my view, everything you said there is completely incorrect. I believe it is Catholic people who just don't "get it".

It was Jesus and the apostles who foretold that Christianity would be corrupted.....look at the history of your church from its institution in the 4th century, and see that Christ was never there. The RCC have never conducted themselves as Christ's followers.....it was never a continuation of what began at Pentecost....not even close.

At the judgment, when Christ comes to separate the "sheep from the goats", (and the "wheat from the weeds") he will reject those who go through the motions of professing Christianity, but fail to live up to the teachings of God's word through his son in their everyday lives.
When Jesus says "I NEVER knew you" it means that he has never recognized those "weeds" as his own. (Matthew 7:21-23) Before the 4th century there was no Roman Catholic church. It is an institution of corrupt men and always has been. FYI...Jesus was not Catholic. It was foretold that after the death of the apostles, that the apostasy would take place. Why does Christendom pretend that it never happened?

The actions of "the church" spoke louder than their words. Bloodshed is the only evidence you need. The torture and murder of countless innocent people who dared to question what the church said, and had to face the Grand Inquisitor, no matter how obvious the corruption was....they silenced all opposers...just like the Pharisees did. (Matthew 23:37) As we all know, "power corrupts" and this is true no matter what position of power one hold over others. The RCC is a monumental example.

Your faith in "the book" is in fact a pagan tradition ittself, having been adopted from the Greeks, Muslims, and Jews.

If that was the case then why did Jesus and his apostle routinely quote from the Hebrew scriptures....these writings were seen as the inerrant word of God.....the last word on anything. Jesus' reply to satan when he was tempted in every response was "It is written"......why do you suppose that was? Was Jesus adopting pagan traditions?

The Christian scriptures were included in the Bible canon. Your church takes credit for doing so....

Jesus Christ is the founder and God of the living Catholic Church, and our Holidays we've taken on were all authorized by the Father Himself. All of our traditions were created and instituted by God, even the ones that were formally pagan.

The apostle Paul might argue with you there....

"14 Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness? 15 What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will live in them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore come out from them,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch nothing unclean;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be your father,
and you shall be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+6:14-18&version=NRSVCE

Jesus might be the god of your church but he never claimed to be God Almighty....not once. There is not a single doctrine of your church that is based on the Bible. It is based on the "traditions of men", the one thing Jesus said about the Pharisees...they placed their man-made traditions, ahead of the words of God.

We are the living Church. Yours is dead, black and white ink printed on dead trees.

Lets see about that....we will all know soon enough. The Bible foretells that the destruction of Babylon the great is what will herald the end of this present system of things. Perhaps we will witness the end of false religion ourselves....who knows?

 

[HekaMa'atRa]

That is not consistent with the information I obtained watching this: History of Ancient Egypt This is an actual Egyptologist and archeologist. The course is a survey of the pharoahs and describes their religion and political practices. Pharoahs were expected to dominate and to oppress. In fact Egypt's common practice is to suppress nations around them. I don't know who you are or why you're acting like I got this from a cereal box, and lets see some sources since you're so informed.

Yes, I'm familiar with those lectures from Professor Bob Brier. He is a great Egyptologist, but he would never characterize Egyptian history as a "horror film of oppression and suffering for thousands of years." Your description was a gross exaggeration. Ancient Egypt was no different from all the other ancient civilizations of that region. As I said, and from Brier's own lectures, he states it was during the New Kingdom where pharaohs make heavy use of a standing army and seek out to invade foreign lands and establish an empire. Before that, it's less of a concern. Pharaohs were expected to secure borders and defeat potential threats. This is something all civilizations do. Though I won't deny, the warrior pharaohs of the New Kingdom were probably extremely brutal - but so were all the Mesopotamian kings.

The Egyptian believed that dying outside of Egypt denied them a life in the hereafter.

It was more of a concern of not being mummified and receiving the proper burial rituals. Dying in a foreign land was fine, as long as you were brought home.

 

[sooda]

Yes, I'm familiar with those lectures from Professor Bob Brier. He is a great Egyptologist, but he would never characterize Egyptian history as a "horror film of oppression and suffering for thousands of years." Your description was a gross exaggeration. Ancient Egypt was no different from all the other ancient civilizations of that region. As I said, and from Brier's own lectures, he states it was during the New Kingdom where pharaohs make heavy use of a standing army and seek out to invade foreign lands and establish an empire. Before that, it's less of a concern. Pharaohs were expected to secure borders and defeat potential threats. This is something all civilizations do. Though I won't deny, the warrior pharaohs of the New Kingdom were probably extremely brutal - but so were all the Mesopotamian kings.



It was more of a concern of not being mummified and receiving the proper burial rituals. Dying in a foreign land was fine, as long as you were brought home.

That's what I should have said instead of being afraid they would not get a proper burial and therefore would not live in the hereafter.

 

[sooda]

In my view, everything you said there is completely incorrect. I believe it is Catholic people who just don't "get it".

It was Jesus and the apostles who foretold that Christianity would be corrupted.....look at the history of your church from its institution in the 4th century, and see that Christ was never there. The RCC have never conducted themselves as Christ's followers.....it was never a continuation of what began at Pentecost....not even close.

At the judgment, when Christ comes to separate the "sheep from the goats", (and the "wheat from the weeds") he will reject those who go through the motions of professing Christianity, but fail to live up to the teachings of God's word through his son in their everyday lives.
When Jesus says "I NEVER knew you" it means that he has never recognized those "weeds" as his own. (Matthew 7:21-23) Before the 4th century there was no Roman Catholic church. It is an institution of corrupt men and always has been. FYI...Jesus was not Catholic. It was foretold that after the death of the apostles, that the apostasy would take place. Why does Christendom pretend that it never happened?

The actions of "the church" spoke louder than their words. Bloodshed is the only evidence you need. The torture and murder of countless innocent people who dared to question what the church said, and had to face the Grand Inquisitor, no matter how obvious the corruption was....they silenced all opposers...just like the Pharisees did. (Matthew 23:37) As we all know, "power corrupts" and this is true no matter what position of power one hold over others. The RCC is a monumental example.



If that was the case then why did Jesus and his apostle routinely quote from the Hebrew scriptures....these writings were seen as the inerrant word of God.....the last word on anything. Jesus' reply to satan when he was tempted in every response was "It is written"......why do you suppose that was? Was Jesus adopting pagan traditions?

The Christian scriptures were included in the Bible canon. Your church takes credit for doing so....



The apostle Paul might argue with you there....

"14 Do not be mismatched with unbelievers. For what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness? Or what fellowship is there between light and darkness? 15 What agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will live in them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore come out from them,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch nothing unclean;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be your father,
and you shall be my sons and daughters,
says the Lord Almighty.”
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Cor+6:14-18&version=NRSVCE

Jesus might be the god of your church but he never claimed to be God Almighty....not once. There is not a single doctrine of your church that is based on the Bible. It is based on the "traditions of men", the one thing Jesus said about the Pharisees...they placed their man-made traditions, ahead of the words of God.



Lets see about that....we will all know soon enough. The Bible foretells that the destruction of Babylon the great is what will herald the end of this present system of things. Perhaps we will witness the end of false religion ourselves....who knows?

No, NO .. the apostles were NEVER prophets.

Daniel is NOT predicting the downfall of Babylon, he is writing about it as history... and the Book of Daniel was NOT written by Daniel...

The consensus of modern scholars is that Daniel never existed, and the book is a cryptic allusion to the reign of the 2nd century BCE Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

Daniel (Dn'il, or Danel) is also the name of a figure in the Aqhat legend from Ugarit. The authors of the tales in the first half of the Book of Daniel were likely unaware of the Ugaritic Daniel and probably took the name of their hero from Ezekiel; the author of the visions in the second half in turn took his hero's name from the tales.

The tales in chapters 1–6 can be dated to the 3rd or early 2nd centuries BCE;it is generally accepted that these were expanded by the addition of the visions in chapters 8–12 between 167 and 164 BC

 

[Deeje]

No, NO .. the apostles were NEVER prophets.

Who said they were prophets? Jesus was a prophet and they simply reiterated what he said.

Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds" is a strong indication that in the time of the end, (the harvest time) false Christians, sown by the devil, would be in evidence as separate and distinct from the genuine ones sown by Jesus Christ.

Since Jesus said that "few" will be on the road to life, that means that the majority are on a road to nowhere. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The apostle Peter warned...."However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping." (2 Peter 2:1-3)

Paul also said...."However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth." (1 Timothy 4:1-3) Sound familiar?

In this "later times" we see the inspired words of Jesus and the apostles being fulfilled right now. The divided state of Christendom is proof that their similarities greatly outweigh their differences....but at the harvest time, there would be no similarities between the true "wheat" sown by Jesus, and the devil's "weeds".

Daniel is NOT predicting the downfall of Babylon, he is writing about it as history... and the Book of Daniel was NOT written by Daniel...

No...God's word is full of lies.....you really believe that? The power that constructed the universe can't inspire and preserve his own book of instructions? Are you for real?

The consensus of modern scholars is that Daniel never existed, and the book is a cryptic allusion to the reign of the 2nd century BCE Greek king Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

Relying on men again I see.....good grief....read the book of Daniel....You are relying on worldly wisdom.

Paul's take on that...?

"Let no one deceive himself: If anyone among you thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, so that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” 20 And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.” (1 Corinthians 3:18-20; Psalm 94:11)

Daniel (Dn'il, or Danel) is also the name of a figure in the Aqhat legend from Ugarit. The authors of the tales in the first half of the Book of Daniel were likely unaware of the Ugaritic Daniel and probably took the name of their hero from Ezekiel; the author of the visions in the second half in turn took his hero's name from the tales.

Nonsense.

The tales in chapters 1–6 can be dated to the 3rd or early 2nd centuries BCE; it is generally accepted that these were expanded by the addition of the visions in chapters 8–12 between 167 and 164 BC

Who said? Generally accepted by whom? Who on earth are you listening to?

 

[sooda]

Who said they were prophets? Jesus was a prophet and they simply reiterated what he said.

Jesus' parable of the "wheat and the weeds" is a strong indication that in the time of the end, (the harvest time) false Christians, sown by the devil, would be in evidence as separate and distinct from the genuine ones sown by Jesus Christ.

Since Jesus said that "few" will be on the road to life, that means that the majority are on a road to nowhere. (Matthew 7:13-14)

The apostle Peter warned...."However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping." (2 Peter 2:1-3)

Paul also said...."However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. 3 They forbid marriage and command people to abstain from foods that God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth." (1 Timothy 4:1-3) Sound familiar?

In this "later times" we see the inspired words of Jesus and the apostles being fulfilled right now. The divided state of Christendom is proof that their similarities greatly outweigh their differences....but at the harvest time, there would be no similarities between the true "wheat" sown by Jesus, and the devil's "weeds".



No...God's word is full of lies.....you really believe that? The power that constructed the universe can't inspire and preserve his own book of instructions? Are you for real?



Relying on men again I see.....good grief....read the book of Daniel....You are relying on worldly wisdom.

Paul's take on that...?

"Let no one deceive himself: If anyone among you thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, so that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” 20 And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.” (1 Corinthians 3:18-20; Psalm 94:11)



Nonsense.



Who said? Generally accepted by whom? Who on earth are you listening to?

The Book of Daniel was not written by "Daniel". Several nameless authors wrote Daniel over a period of hundreds of years.

 

[Deeje]

The Book of Daniel was not written by "Daniel". Several nameless authors wrote Daniel over a period of hundreds of years.

Who says so? You can't make sweeping statements like that without backing them up. Who is questioning the word of God and by what authority do they do so?

 

[sooda]

Who says so? You can't make sweeping statements like that without backing them up. Who is questioning the word of God and by what authority do they do so?

Danel - Wikipedia

B425 Ugarit and the Bible - Quartz Hill School of Theology
www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm
From the Literature of Ugarit to the Literature of the Bible. The style of writing discovered at Ugarit is known as alphabetic cuneiform.

This is a unique blending of an alphabetic script (like Hebrew) and cuneiform (like Akkadian); thus it is a unique blending of two styles of writing.

Ugarit and the Bible, Quartz Hill School of Theology

 

[Deeje]

Do you actually go door to door?

Of course.....I have been engaging in this work commanded by Jesus for over 40 years. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) All of Jehovah's Witnesses do this. It is a command, not an option.

There's nothing wrong with the rosary if it helps focus the mind in prayer.

Jesus tells us not to use vain repetition in our prayers, and did so right before he gave the model prayer. So that means that we don't repeat that prayer either....it was supposed to be a model for our own prayers.
Rosary beads are borrowed from non-Christian religions.
We are to pray from the heart, not by rote with a set of non-Christian means.

And there is nothing wrong with Easter eggs and Bunnies. Eggs represent new life.

Really? Chickens, rabbits and eggs are the emblems of the fertility goddess Oestre (Astarte) pronounced Easter. They didn't even remove the name of the false deity. This is false worship dressed up as Christian worship. We are not to touch it. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

How do you know that most Catholics don't know the history of the church?

From speaking with them. I know that many of them are not knowledgable about the Bible at all. My Catholic neighbor doesn't want to talk about the Bible at all. She is happy in her ignorance. Happy to parrot off the rosary and take her little wafer at church every Sunday.

Many are also ashamed of the bad reputation that many Catholic priests have brought on their church and the millions of dollars having to be paid out to victims of systemic child sexual abuse in many Catholic institutions all over the world for who knows how long? The cruelty and abuse displayed in Catholic institutions is legendary, from both priests and nuns. I have had many conversations with their victims.

A lot of Catholic teaching is at a high level intellectually.

That has not been my experience. Catholic priests are as clueless about the hard questions as anyone else. You cannot use the Bible to support Catholic belief. My conversations with Catholic priests almost always result in excuses to leave when the questions got too difficult. They have no answers. Very little of what they believe is from the Bible.

Instead of literal interpretation they get symbolism and allegory. A Catholic shared their view of Adam and Eve with me. That the story was about the transition between hunter-gatherers to farmers.

That demonstrates a complete misinterpretation of the Genesis account. Genesis makes no mention of a "transition between hunter-gatherers to farmers"?

The first humans were not hunter-gatherers in the first place. They had all their dietary requirements met with the fruit trees that were planted by God himself in the garden of Eden.
The fact that they were forced to become "farmers" was because they disobeyed the only negative command that they were given.
The ground was cursed as a result and instead of being able to access their food with very little effort, they now had to eke out an existence by eating bread.....grown in cursed ground, by the sweat of their faces. Read Genesis.

When Adam and Eve "fell" and were expelled from the garden it was because instead of trusting in God's providence they took survival into their own hands and planted crops.

Rubbish. They planted crops because they had to, not because they wanted to. They had suffered an eviction from the garden because the woman was deceived into eating the fruit that they were told was God's property. Her husband was not deceived, but chose to join his wife in rebellion. Imagine them going from eating delicious fruit ripe for the picking with no hard work involved, and then being forced to grow their own grain in ground that yielded very little.....harvesting, threshing, grinding and then making it into bread. Not something they anticipated as a result of their disobedience I assume.

Whether ALL Catholics buy into that interpretation or not we are talking about some serious thought being given to the messages in the myth.

Who says it's a myth? Where do you get these whacky ideas?

 

[sooda]

Of course.....I have been engaging in this work commanded by Jesus for over 40 years. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) All of Jehovah's Witnesses do this. It is a command, not an option.



Jesus tells us not to use vain repetition in our prayers, and did so right before he gave the model prayer. So that means that we don't repeat that prayer either....it was supposed to be a model for our own prayers.
Rosary beads are borrowed from non-Christian religions.
We are to pray from the heart, not by rote with a set of non-Christian means.



Really? Chickens, rabbits and eggs are the emblems of the fertility goddess Oestre (Astarte) pronounced Easter. They didn't even remove the name of the false deity. This is false worship dressed up as Christian worship. We are not to touch it. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)



From speaking with them. I know that many of them are not knowledgable about the Bible at all. My Catholic neighbor doesn't want to talk about the Bible at all. She is happy in her ignorance. Happy to parrot off the rosary and take her little wafer at church every Sunday.

Many are also ashamed of the bad reputation that many Catholic priests have brought on their church and the millions of dollars having to be paid out to victims of systemic child sexual abuse in many Catholic institutions all over the world for who knows how long? The cruelty and abuse displayed in Catholic institutions is legendary, from both priests and nuns. I have had many conversations with their victims.



That has not been my experience. Catholic priests are as clueless about the hard questions as anyone else. You cannot use the Bible to support Catholic belief. My conversations with Catholic priests almost always result in excuses to leave when the questions got too difficult. They have no answers. Very little of what they believe is from the Bible.



That demonstrates a complete misinterpretation of the Genesis account. Genesis makes no mention of a "transition between hunter-gatherers to farmers"?

The first humans were not hunter-gatherers in the first place. They had all their dietary requirements met with the fruit trees that were planted by God himself in the garden of Eden.
The fact that they were forced to become "farmers" was because they disobeyed the only negative command that they were given.
The ground was cursed as a result and instead of being able to access their food with very little effort, they now had to eke out an existence by eating bread.....grown in cursed ground, by the sweat of their faces. Read Genesis.



Rubbish. They planted crops because they had to, not because they wanted to. They had suffered an eviction from the garden because the woman was deceived into eating the fruit that they were told was God's property. Her husband was not deceived, but chose to join his wife in rebellion. Imagine them going from eating delicious fruit ripe for the picking with no hard work involved, and then being forced to grow their own grain in ground that yielded very little.....harvesting, threshing, grinding and then making it into bread. Not something they anticipated as a result of their disobedience I assume.



Who says it's a myth? Where do you get these whacky ideas?

The story of Adam and Eve is allegory not history.

Humans were hunter-gatherers up until about 11,000 BC when they began cultivating barley and chickpeas. Long before Adam and Eve.

 

[wellwisher]

Christianity became the official religion of Rome, in the 4th century under Constantine. This honor was bestowed as a reward to the Christians soldiers; under Roman rule, who fought for Rome. They were Rome's best soldiers. They were fearless in battle, since they had a vision of the afterlife.

Rome was not the official secular of Christianity. Rather, Rome was the overlord and Christianity became the official religion of Rome. Since Rome was in charge, and owned a vast empire, they made changes to the original Christianity to help accommodate the Pagan aspects of their empire. For example, the birth of Jesus; Christmas, was made to overlap a traditional Pagan winter festival.

What would become the Roman Catholic Church was a paradoxical hybrid of Rome and Christianity; paradox of power and humility, wealth and blessed are the poor.This hybrid was the main reason Paganism disappeared. The early Roman Catholic Church offered a transitional Christian-Pagan Church, that could successfully bridge Paganism with Christianity, allowing a transition to Christianity. St Patrick of Ireland, driving out the snakes, was a metaphor of converting the Pagans to Christianity.

The Roman-Christian hybrid lasted for about 1000 years ; 4th century to about the 14th century. At about the 14th century, the hybrid began to split, like a mother cell about to make two daughter cells.

One aspect; daughter cell was closer to pure Roman of old; Inquisition. While the other aspect was closer to the original Christianity. Atheism was part of the split and was more slanted toward the Roman intellectual side. Hitler and Mussolini were also connected to the Roman side of the split; Roman power. The Roman Catholic Church lost its military power and control over the empire, and became a more ceremonial part of the Christian side of the split. There are now Sects, which are nearly pure old time Christian, all of which can trace their roots back to the hybrid; Christians-Roman-Pagans.

 

[Deeje]

The story of Adam and Eve is allegory not history.

Humans were hunter-gatherers up until about 11,000 BC when they began cultivating barley and chickpeas. Long before Adam and Eve.

I love the way you make these statements as if they must be true....who said?

How can anyone identify as a Christian if they basically reject the only book that tells the real history of the human race from its beginning to its end, from the perspective of its Creator. It was the book that Jesus himself used.

Saying that Adam and Eve are mythical characters in a mere allegory is accusing Jesus of being a liar. He was the one God used to create everything including the first humans. (Colossians 1:15-17; Matthew 19:4)

Relying on human wisdom, which God says is foolishness, will point us towards the road that Jesus said is traveled by "many", but is a dead end. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Faith is believing, even when human wisdom is trying to convince us that God isn't who he says he is, or cannot do what he says he has....or has left humanity without specific instructions about how to exist in this godless world without losing faith. We reject it at our own risk.

Only those with eyes of faith can "see" the truth. Jesus said that God will not reveal his 'pearls' of truth' to 'unreasoning animals' because, in their ignorance they will not see the value in them, and 'trample them underfoot'. (Matthew 7:6)

 

[sooda]

I love the way you make these statements as if they must be true....who said?

How can anyone identify as a Christian if they basically reject the only book that tells the real history of the human race from its beginning to its end, from the perspective of its Creator. It was the book that Jesus himself used.

Saying that Adam and Eve are mythical characters in a mere allegory is accusing Jesus of being a liar. He was the one God used to create everything including the first humans. (Colossians 1:15-17; Matthew 19:4)

Relying on human wisdom, which God says is foolishness, will point us towards the road that Jesus said is traveled by "many", but is a dead end. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Faith is believing, even when human wisdom is trying to convince us that God isn't who he says he is, or cannot do what he says he has....or has left humanity without specific instructions about how to exist in this godless world without losing faith. We reject it at our own risk.

Only those with eyes of faith can "see" the truth. Jesus said that God will not reveal his 'pearls' of truth' to 'unreasoning animals' because, in their ignorance they will not see the value in them, and 'trample them underfoot'. (Matthew 7:6)

Jesus taught in parables. The OT stories are epic morality tales They are didactic literature. They were NEVER intended to be read as history or science. The ancients knew that.

Christians and Jews and Muslims are not required to reject education.

Can you not live in this "godless world" without refusing education? We would still have smallpox and polio if mankind was expected to remain in the bronze age.

 

[Deeje]

Jesus taught in parables. The OT stories are epic morality tales They are didactic literature. They were NEVER intended to be read as history or science. The ancients knew that.

Yes, I'm sure that Noah and Job and Abraham had great difficulty believing in their own existence.

After mentioning all the faithful ones of ancient times Paul said...."In faith all of these died, although they did not receive the fulfillment of the promises; but they saw them from a distance and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land." (Hebrews 11)

How does a person die, if they have never lived?

You know so much about "the ancients"......but were you there? Were any of the people who make suggestions to you about them, there to observe that they were just stories to to emphasize moral concepts? You act like you are sure about theses things.....but that is impossible.

You do understand that this conversation would make more sense if I was talking to an atheist......don't you?

Christians and Jews and Muslims are not required to reject education.

Ah, but there is education and there is education.....what kind of education did Jesus recommend for his apostles? None of them had a formal education so did he send them off to the highly respected rabbinical schools? Or did he concentrate on their spiritual education? Which one was going to lead them to everlasting life? No amount of worldly education in science or any other subject will win Brownie points with God. Learn about him first and then you can appreciate natural science even more because of who produced it. It results in giving credit where credit is due, rather than professing belief in a God whose instruction manual you think is a fairy story.

Can you not live in this "godless world" without refusing education? We would still have smallpox and polio if mankind was expected to remain in the bronze age.

I don't know where you get the idea that we refuse education. Our kids are educated as a matter of law in my country. That means that our children leave school with just as much knowledge as anyone else. They have to stay at school till they have completed 12 years of education. (unless they choose a trade or some other form of employment after year 10)

The world will advance no matter how much we individually learn and not everyone has the capacity for an advanced education anyway. If we have talents, then we should use them for God, not just for ourselves. This is what Jesus taught. That is what being a Christian means.....you appear to be a skeptic.

How many leave university with degrees and find that they can't get a job in their chosen field? When they try to gain employment in lower levels they are told that they are "overqualified".....higher education is not all its cracked up to be. The world is in a financial and political mess in case you haven't noticed....job security no longer exists.....can education solve these problems or is it more about selfish human nature and we just never let the penny drop?

God has promised to solve these problems permanently in the future, but in the meantime, we as Christians have a commission, which does not require a university degree. (Matthew 10:11-15; Matthew 24:14)

 

[Augustus]

Christianity became the official religion of Rome, in the 4th century under Constantine. This honor was bestowed as a reward to the Christians soldiers; under Roman rule, who fought for Rome. They were Rome's best soldiers. They were fearless in battle, since they had a vision of the afterlife.

Christianity didn't become the official religion until Theodosius, 5 emperors later (one of whom, Julian, was a Pagan).

Under Constantine, 7-10% of the population were Christian and these were disproportionately from the lower social classes so likely that the army, especially leadership, was below this figure.

Constantine didn't make Christianity the official religion, and even if he had, it wouldn't have been to 'honour' 5% of the army.