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How did Adam & Eve do it?

Akivah

Well-Known Member
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Although I am a Christian, I don't take the story of Adam and Eve seriously. Also because lots of priests say it's just mythology. The problem is that Saint Paul did take this allegorical tale seriously in order to justify the doctrine of original sin, and to explain why Jesus had to die on the Cross.
But of course, as you implicitly noticed, there is absolutely no logic in the concept of original sin, because Adam and Eve had free will both before and after the apple eating. So therefore, sin existed before and after that.
If sin hadn't existed before that, they couldn't have used their free will to eat the apple. Besides...if the serpent had been the solely responsible for the apple eating (because he supposedly made them do it), God would have punished the serpent only , and not also Adam and Eve.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.
I believe that "sin" is the willful transgression of a religious law or moral principle. Prior to eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, Adam and Eve had no real understanding of the difference between right and wrong. Therefore, it was not a "sin" per se for them to eat the fruit they'd been told not to eat. Upon eating the fruit, they gained the knowledge they'd need to make further decisions, i.e. to sin or not to sin in the future. Lucifer's existence did not depend upon Adam's and Eve's choice to eat the fruit.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Let me just mention that there tends to be a difference with how Christians deal with what is a sin versus what Jews do. In Judaism, if one "misses the mark", which is what "sin"means, it makes no difference whether that was intentional or accidental as far as the definition goes, whereas Christians tend to believe it's only the former that qualifies.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple.
No, the corruption of human nature as a result of the first sin came into this world. Before the fall they did not suffer from concupiscence (the inherent pull towards sin) but they nonetheless had the freedom to disregard specific instructions that God may give them. And they did and thus sinned. And they did so far more culpably, as not only were their natures perfect, they had a far more direct knowledge of God.

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?
The snake (which is identified with Satan) didn't compel Eve to anything, she chose to listen to the snake and disobey God. Now as a result, we are subject to all the imperfections we suffer today as well as the unceasing tug of concupiscence.

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?
The angelic fall was a separate event that only had direct consequences for them, not for us and the physical world. The angels had to be tested before being completely confirmed in the beatific vision, and while the exact nature of this test isn't specified (although some believe it was the revealing of the incarnation) according to tradition one third of the angelic host rejected God and fell. Humans too are tested and given the same choice, except our test is this life here on earth.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.
I believe the 'apple' trick was just that.
an alteration unto Adam had been dealt
Eve is a clone....not born of woman....no navel

the alteration was needed to jump start the spirit of Man
Man needs to be a creature curious .....even if death is a pending consequence

having partaken....they passed the test

the specimens were then released into the environment.....
the garden was dismantled
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple.

I don't believe the fruit is named actually....it was not poisoned but represented God's sovereign authority over his creation. That is why stealing that fruit carried the death penalty. Undermining God's rightful sovereignty was a capital offense.
Taking that fruit meant stealing something that God said was his exclusive property. Nothing good would result from a knowledge of evil.

That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

They were given access to "every tree of the garden" except that one....so there was no hardship created by the prohibition....only a test of respect for what God said was his, and trust that he would not lie to them or withhold anything beneficial from them.
Death would result, but the first rebel said that wasn't true. (making God out to be a liar) There was no other cause of death for human beings, so pre-eating of the fruit meant that humans would have lived forever in their mortal flesh in paradise conditions that they themselves had created outside of the garden. (Genesis 1:28)

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

No one "made" them do anything....no one can make us do anything even now. The man and his wife chose to disobey God for two entirely different reasons.
The devil targeted the woman when she was alone. Then he planted a seed of doubt and appealed to her self-interest suggesting that this good life she had, could be even better if they had a knowledge of evil because then they would be "like God". She fell for that and was deceived by him...but the crunch came when satan stood back to watch the fallout with his real target....her husband had waited a long time for his mate and now he faced losing her. The devil had succeeded in dividing Adam's loyalties and force him to choose between the love of his life and the love of his God. He chose badly and plunged the entire human race into chaos....the chaos that God had tried to spare them from ever knowing about. But once the 'genie was out of the bottle' there was no sending it back, so what transpired from there was an object lesson for all on the folly of trying to live a life independent from The Creator.

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

Free moral agency is the gift God gave to all his intelligent creation. The angels were free willed beings too. The devil was not created to be evil, but as Ezekiel said in his dirge to the King of Tyre, his words clearly apply to satan.

Ezekiel 28:13-15:
"You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.
You were adorned with every precious stone
—Ruby, topaz, and jasper;
chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;
And their settings and mountings were made of gold.
They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you."


Just as a thief or a murderer is not born to be such, neither was this cherub created to be a satan or a devil. He chose his course just as we choose ours. No one makes us do anything against our will.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Man as species had a nasty habit of grabbing all within reach.

Man has been stealing all these many centuries.

of course he needed to be mindful of the next life
and garden event took Man's nature and used it in him

of course he took the fruit

we would still be that lesser species if he hadn't
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?
If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?
And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?
NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.

1 Timothy 2:14 says that Eve was deceived by the serpent.
Then, Eve gave the forbidden fruit to Adam and he deliberately ate ( suicide )
By eating then they knew the knowledge of evil/bad of Genesis 2:17 which was: death.
As a fan unplugged from its power source, Adam slowly wound down until he died.
Father Adam then passed down that dying defect onto his offspring ( us included )
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Because we can't stop sinning we die.
Since we can't resurrect oneself or another is why we need someone who can resurrect us. Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18

Satan turned himself into a Satan and a Devil by being drawn out by the wrong desire to have humans worship him - James 1:13-15
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
I see sin as being purely conceptual: the idea of it being some kind of supernatural stain that sticks to your soul, is passed down to offspring as "original sin" and is somehow capable of warping the laws of physics such that our universe started to "die" once it was physically realized (i.e. the Fall) makes no sense to me at all. I certainly don't take the creation account in Genesis literally and am not even sure that Adam and Eve represent real people.
 

ronandcarol

Member
Premium Member
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.
I believe that the Garden was pristine and absolutely perfect. Without sin. The snake, satan, was a fallen angel and brought sin with him when he was booted out of heaven. He lied and deceived Eve which lead to the first sin of disbelieving God. They believed the false promise of satan because they were given free will. Thus, sin was introduced to mankind. There is no difference in the pre or post apple eating humans, they and us all have this free will thing and it is our choice to follow God's direction or be swayed by deceiving tongues of the false prophets of today.

ronandcarol
 

meghanwaterlillies

Well-Known Member
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating,how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?
Should I ask you to leave? lol
 

atpollard

Active Member
Although I am a Christian, I don't take the story of Adam and Eve seriously. Also because lots of priests say it's just mythology. The problem is that Saint Paul did take this allegorical tale seriously in order to justify the doctrine of original sin, and to explain why Jesus had to die on the Cross.
But of course, as you implicitly noticed, there is absolutely no logic in the concept of original sin, because Adam and Eve had free will both before and after the apple eating. So therefore, sin existed before and after that.
If sin hadn't existed before that, they couldn't have used their free will to eat the apple. Besides...if the serpent had been the solely responsible for the apple eating (because he supposedly made them do it), God would have punished the serpent only , and not also Adam and Eve.
There is a significant difference between knowing where babies come from as a result of reading a good biology book, and 'knowing' your wife experientially to gain knowledge of where babies come from.

Sin is like that.
 

atpollard

Active Member
I believe that the Garden was pristine and absolutely perfect. Without sin. The snake, satan, was a fallen angel and brought sin with him when he was booted out of heaven. He lied and deceived Eve which lead to the first sin of disbelieving God. They believed the false promise of satan because they were given free will. Thus, sin was introduced to mankind. There is no difference in the pre or post apple eating humans, they and us all have this free will thing and it is our choice to follow God's direction or be swayed by deceiving tongues of the false prophets of today.

ronandcarol
No difference except the curse of God.
 

Akivah

Well-Known Member
I believe that the Garden was pristine and absolutely perfect. Without sin. The snake, satan, was a fallen angel and brought sin with him when he was booted out of heaven.

So you are saying that sin has always existed, but your god erected some sort of wall around the garden that kept sin out? If that is correct, how could the fallen angel contaminated with sin pass your god's anti-sin wall?
 

Kelloggs

Member
As far as I know about Christian theology, yall believe that sin came into this world by Adam & Eve eating the apple. That would mean that before the apple was eaten that there was no sin in the world. So pre-apple eating, how were A&E able to decide to eat the apple?

If you say that the devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan made them do it, then what is the difference in the pre-apple eating and post-apple eating humans?

And if there was no sin in the world pre-apple eating, how could the sinful devil/snake/Lucifer/Satan even exist?

NOTE: This is a DIR. I posted a respectful question. Only Christians are allowed to answer.
Don't you guys have the same book in Judaism?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So you are saying that sin has always existed, but your god erected some sort of wall around the garden that kept sin out? If that is correct, how could the fallen angel contaminated with sin pass your god's anti-sin wall?

Sin did not exist except as a concept before it was actually practiced. Sin came about as a consequence of disobedience....which God decreed would end in death.

All God's intelligent creation have free will. Humans can decide for themselves what they will eat....what they will wear.....where they will live....and whom they will choose for a partner etc. It was originally meant to be a gift....but abuse turned it into a curse.

Angels live in a different realm to us, so its not so easy to understand what their choices were.....but the adversary's rebellion shows us that free will can be abused in both realms.

The garden was given to Adam and his wife (planted by God) to show them what he wanted the rest of the world to look like. His instruction was to "fill the earth and subdue it"....outside the garden would need to be brought under human control. By exercising their God-given creativity, humans had a big assignment, but they also had forever to achieve it. There was no death mentioned in the garden except for disobedience, so as the human race increased, so would the workforce. What greater satisfaction is there than when we see a wilderness transformed into a beautiful garden? Humans are designed to be physically strong and active, so old age or sickness was never going to slow them down. Had the first pair obeyed the Creator's directions, they would still be here with all their offspring, enjoying the fruits of their labors....and we would never have known or experienced the evil that exists in the world today.
 
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