How Could Christ Love Christians?

[wizanda]

1)John says “I Am Christ”
2)Destroying of temple is false (made up by Pharisees), John tells it as true
3)He was led up ‘silently’ to the slaughter (Isaiah 53), so why does John contradict the other gospels and say he had a conversation with Pilate?
4)The Vine is to be burned (Ezekiel 15) as it has no use, so why does John tell you to be part of it?

So if then John has more Pharisee private conversation and private meetings (even says at the end of the gospel of John “we know this is true, as a disciple told it to us&#8221, so then whose voice is it you are following?
As it is not the voice of Yeshua in Matthew, Mark and Luke?

So please explain why he would love you for following the Pharisees and not him, if that is what you are trying to prove to me?

Luk 20:9-18
(9) Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
(10) And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
(11) And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
(12) And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
(13) Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will “reverence” him when they see him.
(14) But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours…..?
(15) So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
(16) He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
(17) And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
(18) Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Please stop answering with more Pharisee riddles of love that are really inherently dark in essence, this is trying to find light………
Just like the mustard seeds are….which is contained in the Upanishads, Dhammapada, Quran and Bible; so have you understood what all of those seeds that were planted meant?
If you aim to be perfect as God is perfect and God spoke through each, then is it following Christ to have not?

 

[sojourner]

p1= man commits original sin and is condemned
p2= redemption is offered through the death of christ
p3= Being with God is good but can only be through redemption
p4=redemption is the dual act of torture and death of christ and subscription of man to the religion of christianty.

c1= therefore God felt said, thinks it was good to murder christ.

Also Jesus is not impartial to all men only to christians. The rest he damns to hell for their non-alliance to him.

First of all, the "Fall Story" isn't a story about the advent of evil, it's a story of the advent of wisdom.

Redemption is not "offered through the death" of Christ. Redemption is effected through through the whole Christ-event.

One must be in relationship to have a relationship.

Redemption is what God With Us effected. Redemption is ours, and can be realized through any of several avenues of spiritual work.

Therefore, God saw fit to become one of us, and to conquer death by giving up human life on his own terms, having reconciled humanity to God.

It all seems kind of weird if you consider God all-powerful. Surely, he could have snapped his fingers and redeemed everyone who deserved it.

God kind of did that through the Christ-event.

 

[Ðanisty]

God kind of did that through the Christ-event.

But my point is that God could also have done it without sacrificing Christ. So why sacrifice Christ (who's supposed to be God's son) when you don't need to?

 

[wizanda]

But my point is that God could also have done it without sacrificing Christ. So why sacrifice Christ (who's supposed to be God's son) when you don't need to?

The Apocalypse of Abraham

[SIZE=-2]55. [/SIZE] And I looked and saw a Man going out from the left side of the nations and there went out men and women and children, from the side of nations, many hosts, and worshipped Him. And while I still looked, there came many from the right side, and some of these insulted Him, and some of them even struck Him, but others however worshipped Him. And as I watched, I saw Azazel approach Him and he kissed Him on the face and then stood behind Him.
[SIZE=-2]56. [/SIZE] And I said, "0 Eternal One! Who is the Man insulted and beaten, who is worshipped by the nations and kissed by Azazel?" And He answered and said, "Hear Abraham! The Man you saw insulted and beaten and yet worshipped by many, He is the 'Relief' granted by the nations to the people who proceed from you, in the last days, in the twelfth hour of the age of ungodliness. But in the twelfth hour of my final age will I set up this Man from your generation, whom you saw issue from among my people, and all who follow will become like this Man, and such as are called by me will join the others, even those who will to change within themselves. And as for those who emerge from the left side of the picture, the meaning is this - there shall be many from the nations who shall set their hopes upon Him, but as for those whom you saw from your seed on the right of the picture who insulted Him and struck Him, many shall be offended in Him, but some shall worship Him. And He shall test those of your seed who have worshipped Him in the twelfth hour at the end, with a view to shortening the age of ungodliness.

Zec 11:7-8
(7) And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called GRACE (Beauty), and the other I called INHERITANCE (Bands); and I fed the flock.
(8) Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.
Zec 11:13
(13) And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

God doesn't sacrifice, God offered and people choose to kill an ascended master or elder for 30 pieces of silver (jokers) and people call this Love?
So please explain in the slightest, what any are doing and explain how Christ can love them for this?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

When people say it is good to murder him, do people really think he will be willing to be your friend?

Since Christ Himself believed it to be ultimately good and necessary for Him to be murdered, yes, I do, since He says that we are.

 

[wizanda]

Do you know in hell, no one listens to what you just said.....so why do you try so hard to do the same?.....
If you noticed that was "The Apocalypse of Abraham", that is a peace offering on my part of being nice………as understand it was removed by some and in that is not our way…..

 

[sojourner]

But my point is that God could also have done it without sacrificing Christ. So why sacrifice Christ (who's supposed to be God's son) when you don't need to?

God did do it without sacrificing Christ. It's not the sacrifice that reconciles us to God, but the very Incarnation that reconciles us to God.

 

[sojourner]

God doesn't sacrifice, God offered and people choose to kill an ascended master or elder for 30 pieces of silver (jokers) and people call this Love?
So please explain in the slightest, what any are doing and explain how Christ can love them for this?

We honor our fallen veterans on Memorial Day. Why should we not honor Christ for his sacrifice of himself even more than that?

 

[wizanda]

Honour is all good, yet where is the honour if you then state they did the exact opposite, to what they actually did?

Yeshua brought divided and the sword!
Not peace!
This is soon to be acted upon and all will pay as in The Apocalypse of Abraham (by God).....which though removed, still tallies with everything i have been saying and we can prove this with the Bible alone......
Which must mean you could have also and so must not like Yeshua and love Pharisees?

So in fact, Yeshua came as a test of the nations and made it that people follow what they think is acceptable, yet if they read they will find they are taught Anti-Christ doctrine...Well depending on the heart that is….

Yet when all get brainwashed by said Pharisee Churches...explain one reason to love you when you so blatantly defile Yeshua?

 

[Special Revelation]

When people say it is good to murder him, do people really think he will be willing to be your friend?

How could Christ love Christians?

That's a great question, because there is NOTHING in the creature that compels God to love us. There is nothing in us that is lovable to God in our fallen nature. We are born as God's enemies. God would be completely just if all humanity was destroyed in the flood. The remnant in the Ark, or remnant saved by grace in all redemptive history was designed for the glory of God. Christ loves Christians for the glory of God.

Romans 5

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

 

[wizanda]

So without even looking through the Paul rubbish you are posting again, as it make me personally sick to the core, as it is so fake and noticeably....if you loved Yeshua you wouldn’t be able to accept any of it….

If Yeshua said hate self, hate family………love God with all your heart……….where or when does that imply that he could love something against God?
If you are all unsure why it is against God, the one thing counted precious in the ‘sight’ of ‘God’ according to the Bible is his prophets…..

Then to believe Paul, John and Simon you are proving time and again to someone older then Yeshua, that it is what your heart desires….

So where or why would Yeshua love you for murdering him, if within excepting them Pharisees you deny his teachings?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Do you know in hell, no one listens to what you just said.....so why do you try so hard to do the same?.....
If you noticed that was "The Apocalypse of Abraham", that is a peace offering on my part of being nice………as understand it was removed by some and in that is not our way…..

How it pertains to my comment you'll have to make more clear to me, sorry.

 

[wizanda]

If you can't see it in that texts i just posted, then no wonder Christ set you all up.....as written "feed the sheep for slaughter"..........
Just personally I don't think many of you are even aware of this, that it is being done.....
Which is why he said when the Fig comes know the time draws near.....
so this is like free Fig oil before the day....Yet many don't take me seriously enough (as written will happen).....:sad4: 4 U

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

If you can't see it in that texts i just posted, then no wonder Christ set you all up.....as written "feed the sheep for slaughter"..........
Just personally I don't think many of you are even aware of this, that it is being done.....
Which is why he said when the Fig comes know the time draws near.....
so this is like free Fig oil before the day....Yet many don't take me seriously enough (as written will happen).....:sad4: 4 U

No, I don't see it. You asked a question, I answered. You said, in essence, what's the point of answering, no one in hell can hear you, etc etc etc. I do hope you see the contradiction in your expectations there. If you don't want the answer don't ask the question.

 

[wizanda]

The question was on you all.....as i have almost no options left, tried explaining it, tried reiterating it with all needed scriptures.....that was phrased if you know what this love is, then you will see.....[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[MaddLlama]

The question was on you all.....as i have almost no options left, tried explaining it, tried reiterating it with all needed scriptures.....that was phrased if you know what this love is, then you will see.....[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

So, if you're right and any dissenting opinion can't possibly be right, then why bother posting this in the debate section?
As a matter of fact, whats the point in posting it at all?

 

[wizanda]

Because i was sent to seek......and in that is as scripture relates.....then just to tell everyone they got what they have earned.....and God watches all........
Yet i was hoping some might respond with even the slightest bit of love and question their own hearts.....instead all i hear is but, but, but again and again, so all is clear to us.....
Yeshua is my younger and people have let us down so many times, just come to see why.......
It isn’t as my opinion by the way, it is what the Bible actually relates again and again without Pharisees, yet none care to even look……… so remember this and understand why, is all I wanted to let people know, and then see if any can open their hearts, to why it is so wrong, killing any of God’s messengers…..
Then to expect God loves anybody for this, is a serious misjudgement and is insane to me……. So why was asking how people could possibly think they can get away with this?….

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Because i was sent to seek......and in that is as scripture relates.....then just to tell everyone they got what they have earned.....and God watches all........
Yet i was hoping some might respond with even the slightest bit of love and question their own hearts.....instead all i hear is but, but, but again and again, so all is clear to us.....
Yeshua is my younger and people have let us down so many times, just come to see why.......
It isn’t as my opinion by the way, it is what the Bible actually relates again and again without Pharisees, yet none care to even look……… so remember this and understand why, is all I wanted to let people know, and then see if any can open their hearts, to why it is so wrong, killing any of God’s messengers…..
Then to expect God loves anybody for this, is a serious misjudgement and is insane to me……. So why was asking how people could possibly think they can get away with this?….

If you actually cared or knew what the Bible said, you would probably be more aware of Jesus' own words relating the importance and necessity of His own death, and His willingness to undergo it.

 

[wizanda]

Mat 12:7
(7) But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 23:29-31
(29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
(30) And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
(31) Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 21:40-41
(40) When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
(41) They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Hos 6:6
(6) For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Rev 16:6
(6) For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are accounted.

 

[sojourner]

so remember this and understand why, is all I wanted to let people know, and then see if any can open their hearts, to why it is so wrong, killing any of God’s messengers…..
Then to expect God loves anybody for this, is a serious misjudgement and is insane to me……. So why was asking how people could possibly think they can get away with this?…

We didn't kill Christ. Christ sacrificed himself long, long, long ago. I feel that the Bible is abundantly clear on this point.

To expect God to love...is love not the nature of God? Time and again God turns God's wrath from those who have turned away. In the OT, we find many examples and statements of God's boundless and unending mercy toward us. God will be who God will be, and we can expect God to act in ways consistent with God's nature.

What seems insane to me is how one can expect God, who loves us enough to create us specifically to be in a love relationship with God, to not love us, despite all the warts with which we are created. Therein lies the overarching message of scripture: "I will be with you always." Therein is our hope. Therein is the reason why we continue to cultivate a relationship with God.

We believe that God does not turn God's back on God's people. What do you believe?