How come we are good in making critique of others?

[Spirit of Light]

When I was a Buddhist I was one of those who could make a critique of other people's beliefs, or even make a critique of religions I did not follow. But why are we making so harsh critique of other people when we do not even reach up to expectation within our own religion or cultivation path?

Why do we not focus on our own effort? Is it not so that when we become better ourselves self we could be an example of how spiritual life is meant to be lived? To actually not make a critique of others but of our own way of being?

As a cultivator of Falun Gong who can not even raise my own effort of morality, ethics, and spirituality(to the required level in Falun Gong), How am I to tell others what they should or should not do or believe in their spiritual life or path? And especially how am I to say to someone, you are wrong and I am right?

As spiritual people should we not be more focused on our own path and how to raise our own wisdom, then telling others what we think is right for them? (this is not a critique of any member or religion of this forum)

Before we can say you are wrong and I am right, does it not require that we actually have the inner wisdom of the ultimate truth of this spiritual universe and its wisdom? (not speaking of science here).
Only when we can understand a higher form of truth then anyone else we could say I know or understand the full truth, and even then, how can we know if what we understand is the highest truth there is?

So to those of the members in this forum, I have "lectured" or "tried to correct" I am sorry that I misrepresented the truth of our existence, I was and still am not on a high enough level of wisdom to tell you that your view is wrong and mine is the correct understanding. So even we see things differently or understand the spiritual wisdom of the teaching differently, it does not mean my understanding is or less good or better then your understanding, it only means we are on a different level of understanding.

And lastly, what I wrote here is my words and not a representation of the teaching of Falun Gong or of master Li Hongzhi teaching. Those things will be something i speak of later in other threads

 

[wizanda]

spiritual life or path?

In my existence, when birds would tell me not to walk certain pathways as a toddler walking in Robinhood's countryside, and I thought I was smarter than Source; it was apparent that all is One, if a birds melody could know that the nettles were that way, and there was a safer alternate path.

Thus for me every sign in this existence is not by chance, nothing is random; to argue against the birds whistling, is to walk into the nettles to test they sting.

In my opinion.

 

[dybmh]

@Amanaki ,Do you still have me on ignore?

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The reason people are good at criticizing others is because, the faults they see in others are their own faults too. And because of that, people are very familiar with the details of these faults. And that makes the criticism "easy" to do.

Criticizing others is a way of avoiding our own faults. The faults which are most irritating for each individual are often found inside that same individual ( perhaps more than the target of the criticism )

In this way: Criticizing others is really criticizing ourselves. And that's why people are so good at it. Because people know their own faults very deeply, even if they do not admit it consciously.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In my existence, when birds would tell me not to walk certain pathways as a toddler walking in Robinhood's countryside, and I thought I was smarter than Source; it was apparent that all is One, if a birds melody could know that the nettles were that way, and there was a safer alternate path.

Thus for me every sign in this existence is not by chance, nothing is random; to argue against the birds whistling, is to walk into the nettles to test they sting.

In my opinion.

Nothing in life is by chance the way I understand it Everything we experience has some form of meaning, and sign in nature can be a sign for us to understand the teaching we follow in a higher form of understanding.
But each human being has their own way of understanding the wisdom/teaching of the universe, So in my understanding, the different spiritual teachings that has arisen in human history, may it be Christianity, Hindu, Taoism, Jewish or other true spiritual teachings, they had and has a purpose for those who study and cultivate the teaching, And, to mix them would not help, because they are all in the same wisdom level, so it would be like study 5 different college books of history, the truth in them are of course truth, but to really understand why they was written so, one could only study one book at the time

 

[Audie]

Nothing in life is by chance the way I understand it Everything we experience has some form of meaning, and sign in nature can be a sign for us to understand the teaching we follow in a higher form of understanding.
But each human being has their own way of understanding the wisdom/teaching of the universe, So in my understanding, the different spiritual teachings that has arisen in human history, may it be Christianity, Hindu, Taoism, Jewish or other true spiritual teachings, they had and has a purpose for those who study and cultivate the teaching, And, to mix them would not help, because they are all in the same wisdom level, so it would be like study 5 different college books of history, the truth in them are of course truth, but to really understand why they was written so, one could only study one book at the time

Just say "why". "How come" is clunky and
uneducated.

Is your post a critique of others?

 

[metis]

IMO, I feel more commonality with those searching for the Truth, whatever that may be, than those claiming that they already have it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

IMO, I feel more commonality with those searching for the Truth, whatever that may be, than those claiming that they already have it.

Yes we can only realize the truth up to the level of wisdom we currently are at, but it does not mean that we can not refine the truth even more.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

When I was a Buddhist I was one of those who could make a critique of other people's beliefs, or even make a critique of religions I did not follow. But why are we making so harsh critique of other people when we do not even reach up to expectation within our own religion or cultivation path?

Many of these types of questions assume that a person has a "cultivation path." I, for one, do not. I just don't. There is no real "plan" in that regard. I understand that I, myself, change over time, and that my outlook and opinions of things will alter depending on new information that I receive and new experiences that I go through. So, I guess, if anything, THAT'S "the plan" - just roll with the punches.

So, let me ask you, being without a "plan" of sorts, does that relieve me of the guilt you are trying to lay on me for critiquing others ideas or beliefs? For knocking holes in other people's "plans?" I like to think it does. And because I like it, I am going to pretend that it is so. See how that works everyone? Aren't we all so proud of ourselves?

 

[metis]

Yes we can only realize the truth up to the level of wisdom we currently are at, but it does not mean that we can refine the truth even more.

Please check your wording on this.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Many of these types of questions assume that a person has a "cultivation path." I, for one, do not. I just don't. There is no real "plan" in that regard. I understand that I, myself, change over time, and that my outlook and opinions of things will alter depending on new information that I receive and new experiences that I go through. So, I guess, if anything, THAT'S "the plan" - just roll with the punches.

So, let me ask you, being without a "plan" of sorts, does that relieve me of the guilt you are trying to lay on me for critiquing others' ideas or beliefs? For knocking holes in other people's "plans?" I like to think it does. And because I like it, I am going to pretend that it is so. See how that works everyone? Aren't we all so proud of ourselves?

It is not wrong to ask questions. But to try to break down someone's belief because of not agreeing, that is a wicked thing to do, If you do not agree with any religion or spiritual form of living, that is ok. I can not and will not force you to believe anything.

I did think of writing about atheists in my OP, but since the aim of my OP was toward believers of different spiritual teachings I did not include atheism.
By making a critique of others, what do we learn about our self? what benefit do we gain from being rude or puling people down?

What OP was meant for is to say. Before we can correct others we must correct our self first, it was not meant to attack anyone or any belief/nonbelief

 

[Spirit of Light]

Please check your wording on this.

thank you, i saw it now

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It is not wrong to ask questions. But to try to break down someone's belief because of not agreeing, that is a wicked thing to do

And how do we know that this is wicked? I certainly think it is more "wicked" to attempt to get people to believe things that you cannot demonstrate or have insufficient evidence for. Obviously no one would fault anyone for trying to push the truth of things they CAN demonstrate or DO have sufficient evidence for. But I guess what we're talking about here is different... is it "wrong" to try and convince people of the idea that their evidence for what they claim is "true" is not good enough? That it is not compelling? Is it "wrong" to do so? I honestly don't believe it is.

If you do not agree with any religion or spiritual form of living, that is ok. I can not and will not force you to believe anything.

Great! Now... about the "truth" of yours...

I did think of writing about atheists in my OP, but since the aim of my OP was toward believers of different spiritual teachings I did not include atheism.
By making a critique of others, what do we learn about our self? what benefit do we gain from being rude or puling people down?

My good sir... we do this sort of thing ALL THE TIME with other things less innocuous than "religion" may be (though I, myself do not consider "religion" to be entirely innocuous). We critique the actions of a murderer and conclude that it is better that a murderer be locked away from the rest of society. We critique the actions of thieves and let them know that their outlook on life and their ideas of how to interact with their fellows had better change or we're going to punish them. We critique people who take advantage of others' gullibility and request their money and resources purely for personal gain, and we let them know that it isn't approved behavior, and that they had better stop if they want to continue to have a relationship with us. WHY IS CRITIQUING SOMEONE'S RELIGION THAT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN SO DIFFERENT? I truly believe that only the severity of the harm caused by religion, and the fact that sometimes religion can be seen to do some good, is what makes the difference in people's minds. And guess what? If you don't like that belief of mine... then, by all means, CRITIQUE IT!!!

What OP was meant for is to say. Before we can correct others we must correct our self first, it was not meant to attack anyone or any belief/nonbelief

I didn't see it as an attack. I was only pointing out the fact that the question was rather narrowly focused. There's a whole world of other possibilities out there - I often times worry that far too many people do not even realize that, let alone take advantage of that fact in the process of honing their own views. Hence the reason I tend to call it out when I feel I see an instance of it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And how do we know that this is wicked? I certainly think it is more "wicked" to attempt to get people to believe things that you cannot demonstrate or have insufficient evidence for. Obviously no one would fault anyone for trying to push the truth of things they CAN demonstrate or DO have sufficient evidence for. But I guess what we're talking about here is different... is it "wrong" to try and convince people of the idea that their evidence for what they claim is "true" is not good enough? That it is not compelling? Is it "wrong" to do so? I honestly don't believe it is.

Great! Now... about the "truth" of yours...

My good sir... we do this sort of thing ALL THE TIME with other things less innocuous than "religion" may be (though I, myself do not consider "religion" to be entirely innocuous). We critique the actions of a murderer and conclude that it is better that a murderer be locked away from the rest of society. We critique the actions of thieves and let them know that their outlook on life and their ideas of how to interact with their fellows had better change or we're going to punish them. We critique people who take advantage of others' gullibility and request their money and resources purely for personal gain, and we let them know that it isn't approved behavior, and that they had better stop if they want to continue to have a relationship with us. WHY IS CRITIQUING SOMEONE'S RELIGION THAT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN SO DIFFERENT? I truly believe that only the severity of the harm caused by religion, and the fact that sometimes religion can be seen to do some good, is what makes the difference in people's minds. And guess what? If you don't like that belief of mine... then, by all means, CRITIQUE IT!!!

I didn't see it as an attack. I was only pointing out the fact that the question was rather narrowly focused. There's a whole world of other possibilities out there - I often times worry that far too many people do not even realize that, let alone take advantage of that fact in the process of honing their own views. Hence the reason I tend to call it out when I feel I see an instance of it.

I do not speak for other than my self. So I can not take a stand for all religious people or others who do cultivation path. To my understanding being wicked is to try pushing someone to end their belief or become nonbeliever from being a believer or even worse, to wishing all spiritual life to disappear, that is a wicked action. But it is also wicked to be a spiritual person and trying to force a nonbeliever to start to believe something. For those who found truth in spiritual practice it is not about getting others to become like them (at least it should not be). Spiritual practice is a very lonely path.

When it comes to daily life where murders happen, stealing happens and so on, those things are governed by law an order in each country. for someone who cultivates a spiritual teaching we would know what is right and wrong morally and as we cultivate we would do less and fewer wrongdoings both in law of country and as spiritual beings.
There are many good atheists who never do any wrong, and there are many who claim to be spiritual who do a lot of wrongs. an example can be of catholic priests all around the world, where some of them do very bad things, but you find them in all walks of life.

So No I do not protect every religious person or say they are better than atheists.
But what I see is that for us to be able to say "you are wrong" we must first have understood Why it is wrong, and we can not do the same mistake our self.

So it comes all down to the cultivation of our own person. so we must always strive to become better in our own life.

I don't try to say others should be religious or not. My question was only about is it right to critique others when we our self are not a perfect being?

I do see your point in your answers too so No you are not wrong in asking a question or criticize me for my belief if my words, action, and thought do not add up what the teaching has thought me how to live a righteous life.

 

[Nakosis]

When I was a Buddhist I was one of those who could make a critique of other people's beliefs, or even make a critique of religions I did not follow. But why are we making so harsh critique of other people when we do not even reach up to expectation within our own religion or cultivation path?

Why do we not focus on our own effort? Is it not so that when we become better ourselves self we could be an example of how spiritual life is meant to be lived? To actually not make a critique of others but of our own way of being?

As a cultivator of Falun Gong who can not even raise my own effort of morality, ethics, and spirituality(to the required level in Falun Gong), How am I to tell others what they should or should not do or believe in their spiritual life or path? And especially how am I to say to someone, you are wrong and I am right?

As spiritual people should we not be more focused on our own path and how to raise our own wisdom, then telling others what we think is right for them? (this is not a critique of any member or religion of this forum)

Before we can say you are wrong and I am right, does it not require that we actually have the inner wisdom of the ultimate truth of this spiritual universe and its wisdom? (not speaking of science here).
Only when we can understand a higher form of truth then anyone else we could say I know or understand the full truth, and even then, how can we know if what we understand is the highest truth there is?

So to those of the members in this forum, I have "lectured" or "tried to correct" I am sorry that I misrepresented the truth of our existence, I was and still am not on a high enough level of wisdom to tell you that your view is wrong and mine is the correct understanding. So even we see things differently or understand the spiritual wisdom of the teaching differently, it does not mean my understanding is or less good or better then your understanding, it only means we are on a different level of understanding.

And lastly, what I wrote here is my words and not a representation of the teaching of Falun Gong or of master Li Hongzhi teaching. Those things will be something i speak of later in other threads

It seems to me to be easier when we put our heads together. Sometimes it is easier to fully evaluate an idea from someone else's perspective.

So lots of feedback, right or wrong. Even wrong feedback can be useful at times.

Even though sometimes criticism can be hard to take, I welcome it. Folks have different experiences/understandings. This IMO is valuable information.

Yes, I suppose people certain of their rightness can be annoying at times but even that, being a unique view can be valuable.

I try to offer criticism and accept criticism in non-personal ways. IMO most are just trying to get through life the best they can.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It seems to me to be easier when we put our heads together. Sometimes it is easier to fully evaluate an idea from someone else's perspective.

So lots of feedback, right or wrong. Even wrong feedback can be useful at times.

Even though sometimes criticism can be hard to take, I welcome it. Folks have different experiences/understandings. This IMO is valuable information.

Yes, I suppose people certain of their rightness can be annoying at times but even that, being a unique view can be valuable.

I try to offer criticism and accept criticism in non-personal ways. IMO most are just trying to get through life the best they can.

A way religious people can look at critique is to see if their own morality and ethics have grown stronger To withstand critique can often tempt us to get angry or frustrated, so in some regard, I agree critique is good. But it depends on the grade of evil that is put into it too. critique of harm is not something we can see as a way of teaching us anything

 

[wizanda]

Christianity, Hindu, Taoism, Jewish or other true spiritual teachings, they had and has a purpose for those who study and cultivate the teaching, And, to mix them would not help, because they are all in the same wisdom level, so it would be like study 5 different college books of history, the truth in them are of course truth, but to really understand why they was written so, one could only study one book at the time

In the scientific method we place experiments along side each other, to compare the results to test if the data is accurate.

We can not build a probability without multiple sources, to then check for variations, and problems.

Each religion should be examined in its own mechanism.

You keep making these statements of mixing ideas, which is personally insulting; maybe because you're not taking on board I was studying children's copies of the Bible at 4-5, Taoism at 13, Krishna conscious at 15, fulfilled prophecy at 21, read the Bible at 24, I'm now 42, having studied so many concepts, and still do every day.

If we're cultivating wisdom, rather than religious merit badges, than no amount of effort into practises brings inner wisdom; deep inner meditation, and reflection does.

Every master got the wisdom from the Source; which is here now within us, not there then in them.

In my opinion.

 

[Twilight Hue]

When I was a Buddhist I was one of those who could make a critique of other people's beliefs, or even make a critique of religions I did not follow. But why are we making so harsh critique of other people when we do not even reach up to expectation within our own religion or cultivation path?

Why do we not focus on our own effort? Is it not so that when we become better ourselves self we could be an example of how spiritual life is meant to be lived? To actually not make a critique of others but of our own way of being?

As a cultivator of Falun Gong who can not even raise my own effort of morality, ethics, and spirituality(to the required level in Falun Gong), How am I to tell others what they should or should not do or believe in their spiritual life or path? And especially how am I to say to someone, you are wrong and I am right?

As spiritual people should we not be more focused on our own path and how to raise our own wisdom, then telling others what we think is right for them? (this is not a critique of any member or religion of this forum)

Before we can say you are wrong and I am right, does it not require that we actually have the inner wisdom of the ultimate truth of this spiritual universe and its wisdom? (not speaking of science here).
Only when we can understand a higher form of truth then anyone else we could say I know or understand the full truth, and even then, how can we know if what we understand is the highest truth there is?

So to those of the members in this forum, I have "lectured" or "tried to correct" I am sorry that I misrepresented the truth of our existence, I was and still am not on a high enough level of wisdom to tell you that your view is wrong and mine is the correct understanding. So even we see things differently or understand the spiritual wisdom of the teaching differently, it does not mean my understanding is or less good or better then your understanding, it only means we are on a different level of understanding.

And lastly, what I wrote here is my words and not a representation of the teaching of Falun Gong or of master Li Hongzhi teaching. Those things will be something i speak of later in other threads

Criticism is progression. Keeps things on track and people on their toes.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In the scientific method we place experiments along side each other, to compare the results to test if the data is accurate.

We can not build a probability without multiple sources, to then check for variations, and problems.

Each religion should be examined in its own mechanism.

You keep making these statements of mixing ideas, which is personally insulting; maybe because you're not taking on board I was studying children's copies of the Bible at 4-5, Taoism at 13, Krishna conscious at 15, fulfilled prophecy at 21, read the Bible at 24, I'm now 42, having studied so many concepts, and still do every day.

If we're cultivating wisdom, rather than religious merit badges, than no amount of effort into practises brings inner wisdom; deep inner meditation, and reflection does.

Every master got the wisdom from the Source; which is here now within us, not there then in them.

In my opinion.

Science is a man-made concept (in my understanding) so it has nothing to do with spiritual living.
Each religion is downscale of a cultivation path where religion only looks at belief and not much about the cultivation of the person. whereas cultivation path is the cleaning out all evil from a person so that only the truth shines from within (a process of enlightenment)

If you get offended by someone who disagrees that every religion can be mixed then maybe you should read more since many religious texts actually say that one should only study one path at the time. and even the bible says that "there is only one God" meaning to realize enlightenment within Christianity one can only study that text. to find God within Christian teaching, then it does not help to study Hindu or Buddhist texts to become enlighten in Christianity since those texts speak of other enlightened beings.
When mixing teachings all you do is to take away the mechanism that was put in place by Jesus, Buddha, and so on in each teaching. an enlightened being has the possibility to create a mechanism that ordinary people do not see (because they do not have the third eye, or wisdom eye opened), but those machines are only meant for a person who truly studies under one master. and Only when someone realizes enlightenment are they allowed to create their own teaching because then they understand the truth at an enlighten level of wisdom.

The cultivation is the practice, the practice to remove all evil from within, and become as close to the truth as possible. But even for someone who could reach enlightenment, there can be higher truth since for example the first level of enlightenment ( Tathagata) only represents a part of the truth. there is an even higher level of enlightenment above Tathagata (both Sakyamuni and Jesus hold Tathagata level of wisdom)

Every well known spiritual teacher like Jesus, Sakyamuni, Muhammad, Li Hongzhi and so on was preparing everything they thought and teach before they come to earth in human form. So if a normal non-enlighten person tries to put everything that past masters had cultivated and created into similar to what you say is possible, then yes there will be chaos. because if you can not see and understand the hidden mechanism that are put in place, how do you think you can connect every teaching to be "more truth" then enlighten beings see?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Criticism is progression. Keeps things on track and people on their toes.

As long criticism is not based on wickedness or to be evil, yes i agree with you

 

[wizanda]

"more truth" then enlighten beings see?

As a being who remembers before Heaven was created, before reality started according to Hindu texts as Sanananda the son of Brahma, and as Sananda the New name of Christ, Greek as Zan (Zeus) the son of Chronos (Time), etc.

Enlightenment is some construct in the Matrix; what we've already explained about dimensional quantum physics is well beyond that.

We've basically taught anyone how to create a reality from scratch; for when they're soon kicked out of this one.

As according to multiple prophecies globally, they're soon about to be deleted from the Matrix reality they currently exist within; based on the Source's calculations of their character - All actions are recorded at a quantum level; where bad music goes against us.

We're always trying to help beings understand where the additional potential is in their religious doctrine, so they can evolve enough to be kept in the Matrix.

Generally because we're down near Hell, people are accusative (satan), mockers, scoffers, and slanderous (devil) because they've not been taught the matter here is made out of Hell.

Thus people are argumentative, hardly any accept the right direction in the religious texts as a whole; as they're bound by materialistic ego to go opposite, where hardly any go equal or the extra mile.

Thus when we realize a Bodhisattva is choosing to come down near Hell, as a mission statement; it is an act of kindness to share openly.

Science is a man-made concept

The Scientific Method is a technique of using scientific verification in the process of reasoning; like Buddha uses a very objective scientific method in the Laṅkāvatāra Sūtra, which is why I appreciate it so much...

He will show contexts from Hindu problems, then clarify it in a verification process, which is using a clear logical deduction method; that is so precise, that Buddha (Discernment) created a new form of reasoning in the universe.

In my opinion.