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Featured How can you tell if an event is a miracle.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Dan From Smithville, Oct 23, 2021.

  1. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Veteran Member
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    I believe in miracles.

    I just do not know the criteria for determining if something is a miracle or just an ordinary event that happens for some ordinary, if not necessarily understood, reason.

    How can someone tell the difference between a miracle and something that is not or that looks like a miracle and is not.
     
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  2. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    Probably not possible. I don't think I've seen anything that even goes close to being a miracle.
     
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  3. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Look to science
    Look to logic
    Look to historically similar event
    Look to illusion
    If no answer then you can say either "i don't understand how that happened" or "wow, it's a miracle" depending on how your mind works

    The choice is up to the observer
     
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  4. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    There are two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.

    - Albert Einstein
     
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  5. Suave

    Suave Simulated character

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    In a sim universe, anything is possible. A controller of sims, a reality based virtual reality programmer of human consciousness could unbind sim characters from having to follow reality based natural law.
     
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  6. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    If it cannot be explained by science.
     
  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    I guess if the incident defied the laws of physics. Like levitation where there’s gravity, and no other reason to explain it?
     
  8. WisdomAddict

    WisdomAddict Member

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    i would say its a reward for my good deeds,
    and its weird in some cases , yes i believe in miracles.
     
  9. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

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  10. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Be thankful whether you know or not.
     
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  11. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    ... and the laws of physics are inferred from observations of what happens, so anything that actually happens - even if it's rare, unpredictable or incomprehensible - is within the scope of "the laws of physics."

    The implication here is that a miracle is something that can never happen.

    Sounds like you're describing an argument from ignorance. A God of the Gaps.
     
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  12. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहं ब्रह्मास्मि
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    I find the mere existence of this thread to be miraculous.

    Salix,
    Has low expectations
     
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  13. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Interestingly, I would say that it doesn't matter. If it happened, and it's good, then be joyous, and move on.

    I occasionally met people in AA that had a profound, instantaneous recovery. It was literally as if God has suddenly reached inside them and reconfigured them. And from that moment on they had no desire to drink. Period. It was quite rare, but it did happen, occasionally.

    Was it a 'miracle'? It sure was to them! And why not? Imagine suddenly discovering that your stage 4 cancer had vanished overnight!

    All I can say is God bless them. (Maybe he did!) And be happy for them.

    The inexplicable remains inexplicable. Good or bad.
     
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  14. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    A miracle would be akin to the suspension of the laws of nature. It would have to be specific to a particular time and place for us to know that is the case, otherwise we might have become convinced its totally normal.

    If you had a pet hamster and it defies the laws of gravity, starts drifting through the air and round your bedroom to the theme music for 2001: a space odessy, we’d be in the right area. That sort of thing.
     
  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Why not?

    Because it implies that God will directly intervene to make someone sober or cancer-free if he wills it, so if someone else isn't sober or cancer-free, that's God's will, too.

    For someone who's struggling, hearing people perpetuate the idea that God is perfectly happy to intervene for the "right" people with similar struggles can be counter-productive and cruel.

    The corollary to "God cured Bill's stage 4 cancer" is "God could have cured Jane's stage 4 cancer but didn't." That's a pretty heavy burden for Jane and her family.
     
  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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  17. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    It depends on the context.
    It should be something that defies science or is unexplainable according to today's science.
     
  18. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    But the laws of nature are descriptive, not proscriptive. Any real phenomenon we observe is automatically part of the "laws of nature" even if it only happens once.

    How could we know that this wasn't natural?

    I'm especially interested to hear how you think we could conclude that no natural phenomenon that we don't know about yet could be responsible.
     
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  19. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    You were the one advocating for people "blindly presuming it's God's doing," remember?
     
  20. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

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    I'm thinking the only way we could know is if, not only some deity does it, but that we can prove that some deity broke the natural laws to achieve it.

    But, good luck to anyone trying to prove that.
     
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