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Featured How can you accept evolution and still have a spiritual reality, and/or a God faith

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by osgart, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    I knew you'd say something like that, but Rude? Really? That bad, huh?

    You seem to be a pretty sensitive guy. Maybe try not to take people who you think are idiots (like me apparently) so seriously.
     
  2. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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    Exhibit A in fundamentalist black/white thinking. Fascinating.
     
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  3. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    You'd think so. :shrug:
     
  4. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    It is interesting, really.

    I see it over and over, the binary, black-white, not shades of grey, no other possibilities thing, with fundies.

    I wonder what the deal is. Perhaps a psychologist
    could provide some insight.

    Maybe. I tend to think of them the way I do of
    chiropractors.
     
  5. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    He has a tendency to say the same things over and over.
    One size fits all.

    Like "you do not understand what evidence is; i could teach you"

    "you do not debate properly"
    and
    "that is rude".

    As for quoting scrip as a response to anything other than
    a question about scrip tho-
    I'd say, just do not bother. It will have nothing but a
    negative effect on whatever you are trying to demonstrate.
     
  6. Thermos aquaticus

    Thermos aquaticus Well-Known Member

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    How did you determine that these fossils did not have any ancestors?
     
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  7. Thermos aquaticus

    Thermos aquaticus Well-Known Member

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    You assume that after searching a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of the fossil record that we should have found a fossil for every species that has ever existed. That is a bad assumption.

    We don't know if any of these fossils had any ancestors. You don't know, either. Therefore, you can't make any claims about any fossil not having ancestors.
     
  8. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I dont think that is what he said.

    Of course, what he did say is so heavily loaded
    with editorial cant that it would take a while to
    unpack it.
     
  9. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    If you see a dog, you assume it had ancestors.

    If only only one specimen of some creature has
    ever been found, and all that is known of it is
    one jaw bone, we ASSUME that it had a mommy
    and daddy, and that there was at one time more
    to the creature than just a jaw.

    Our creationist may have a problem with those
    assumptions.
     
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  10. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    29 jun 2018 stvdv 014 14
    Smart, and I feel that. Your reply is very clear. Understanding is still a problem when talking about God though; no definition/experience/proof;)

    Nicely put. Takes Donar and Wodan out of the equation. Reading your words "If you call Gravity a force of god, is not something an atheist will argue about". Felt like a "connection with atheists". Nice to find common ground.

    I see it as mental picture, that's why I call it description. I did have several experiences. Different ones also. If God is 1 thing, should be 1 experience IMO. But then again if God is related to the Universe it might be a vast experience which even my brain can't handle:rolleyes:

    I would say "impossible to accept as real". The Truth should be one and the same to all IMO. Not 7 billion mental pictures or ideas.

    I mentioned "dimension" because I got my experiences during meditation. But even those are just some astral experiences or mystical experiences. But never the "Full experience". Understandable "might be just too big to handle". Or "God" can be all together [force,entity,other concept].

    But still a problem here. God still is not defined. But Gravity being scientific gives you feeling/connection [it's about feeling IMO]. Funny Gravity Big, god small;). If Gravity is a force of god, why not write God? I don't care, was just an observation. And I do love your quote a lot.

    That would be fun though. The moment I have proof then "pooff" proof flies out of the window, and I also, or bump my head:oops: [if Gravity stopped]

    Agreed. But you are much too nice and respectable in your wording. You won't offend others, you do not impose your view. You share !!! Perfect.

    Again you say it in a decent way "If he tells he thinks..". In my experience some non-Atheists lack this respectful wording, claim belief as truth.

    True. Only with believe you never are sure. Uncertainty drives some nuts. That might be the reason get upset if others don't share their belief. I think that is just how our human psyche works. If you then believe in Hell and doom, I need little imagination why they get upset. Much more at stake for them IMO.

    Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts. Was a pleasure to read. Some interesting thoughts popped up. And although I believe in God [being consciousness, as the basis of all creation], you did not offend me for 1 second. Glad we have Atheists. They keep [smart] theists humble. They make you realize that you don't know; you only believe.

    One thing Atheists and I have in common about God is that we all don't have evidence [don't know]. Nice to have a similarity with Atheists.:D
     
    #250 stvdv, Jun 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  11. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    It is rude IMO to present quotes from scripture when actual input from a thinking human being is expected.
     
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  12. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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    From what I've read, black/white thinking is an identifying characteristic of fundamentalists. So I figure it's not that being a fundamentalist leads you to black/white thinking, rather it's that being a black/white thinker predisposes you to fundamentalism.
     
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  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Pretty much what I would think is the case.

    The idea of absolutes appeals to people who
    cannot handle ambiguity and shades of meaning,
    still less moral relativism and situation ethics.

    Where did you find something to read about it?
     
  14. Thermos aquaticus

    Thermos aquaticus Well-Known Member

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    It's not even an assumption that needs to be made. Without DNA we can never determine if any fossil is a direct ancestor of descendant of another fossil or living species. Ultimately, it is the mixture of features in fossils that allow us to test the predictions made by the theory of evolution, and we don't need to establish relationships of direct lineage in order to compare features between fossils.

    Even more to the point, there is no fossil that any creationist would ever accept as being ancestral to another fossil species or living species, so why do they even ask for them to begin with? It's a fools errand. Creationists stick their head in the sand and refuse to address evidence when it is supplied them.
     
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  15. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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  16. Jose Fly

    Jose Fly Fisker of men

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    And of course there's always the Mencken quote....."Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
     
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  17. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    \
    You know, I keep seeing you make claims like this, and I'm really wondering what you're basing that on. Is it just something you've heard somewhere?
    I've asked you repeatedly if you've ever been in a science classroom. You've never answered that question.

    You have people all over this forum telling you over and over that your claim that "evolution is taught as absolute proof," is an erroneous one. That in actuality, science deals with the best available evidence, and is always subject to change, given the emergence of new evidence. That it is not, in fact, taught as "absolute proof." In fact, these same people have told you repeatedly that there is no "proof" in science. So where is it that you think these people have come up with this idea about science? Has it never occurred to you that it may have been what they were taught in science classrooms, where they would also have been taught the scientific method? I mean, how many times can you make the same claim in light of the apparent evidence that people who actually understand evolution and the scientific method are constantly telling you that scientific findings are never taught as "absolute proof." The only thing I can conclude is that you've never been in a science classroom and therefore have no idea what goes on there.
     
  18. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    Rude? That bad, huh? I would think that's being a bit over sensitive, but if you feel it's rude, I wouldn't want to take it away from you. I understand everybody has different tolerance levels.

    Why in the world would you would intimate that I am not a thinking human being? It actually intimates you don't think, which I know is not really true. I'm sure you do think and come up with many good ideas. But you leave yourself open to criticism by making such sweeping and unfounded claims.

    Getting to the point, the original post is entitled Evolution vs Creationism. If I can't quote from the book that defines creationism, wouldn't it be fair that evolutionist couldn't use their science books?

    Would you get into the boxing ring with both hands tied behind your back? Would that classify as a thinking human being in your book? If so, I'd be super glad to go a few rounds (actually a few seconds) with you for the prize money. I don't really think about fighting anybody, just illustrating how lopsided your thinking really is in this matter.
     
  19. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Well-Known Member

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    Me too. I was contemplating doing it yet again, but then decided against such an act of futility.
     
  20. rrobs

    rrobs Active Member

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    All Christians see things as black and white? That's not looking at things as black and white at all!
     
    #260 rrobs, Jun 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
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