How can we be sure?

[Spirit of Light]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

 

[Martin]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

I dont think we can ever be sure. What we can do is read and study the source texts ourselves, rather than relying on second-hand opinions, quotes, commentaries and interpretations.

 

[Jedster]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

Relating to the people you mention above, it is all hearsay.
Assuming they all existed, they were speaking to the people of their times.
There is no way you can verify what they actually said, but can take on board what makes sense to you.
In elevating(and sometime deifying) these people, is the same abandoning part of self.
E.g. "Because Frederica Bloggs was a manifestation of God/gods, everything she says must me true, even if it is not my own understanding".
Also, believing in inerrancy of writings, doesn't help.


IMO, better to converse with what is living and enjoy the writings/poetry of those that are dead.

Have a nice day

 

[Spirit of Light]

Relating to the people you mention above, it is all hearsay.
Assuming they all existed, they were speaking to the people of their times.
There is no way you can verify what they actually said, but can take on board what makes sense to you.
In elevating(and sometime deifying) these people, is the same abandoning part of self.
E.g. "Because Frederica Bloggs was a manifestation of God/gods, everything she says must me true, even if it is not my own understanding".
Also, believing in inerrancy of writings, doesn't help.


IMO, better to converse with what is living and enjoy the writings/poetry of those that are dead.

Have a nice day

Personally, i do not doubt that these people have existed, but what i try to get say is that even we have the Bible, Quran or Suttas they are today only a reference to what this great masters actually did say and teach. Because people later have done their own interpretation of older scriptures and made new translations, and if and when the misunderstanding a word of even many words in the text, they destroy the true teaching, and it becomes very difficult to follow them and gain the true understanding of the teaching. So it is not Jesus, Buddha or Muhammad's fault, it is the people after them that have made mistakes, that have made it more and more difficult to understand the essence of the truth they were teaching.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Personally, i do not doubt that these people have existed, but what i try to get say is that even we have the Bible, Quran or Suttas they are today only a reference to what this great masters actually did say and teach. Because people later have done their own interpretation of older scriptures and made new translations, and if and when the misunderstanding a word of even many words in the text, they destroy the true teaching, and it becomes very difficult to follow them and gain the true understanding of the teaching. So it is not Jesus, Buddha or Muhammad's fault, it is the people after them that have made mistakes, that have made it more and more difficult to understand the essence of the truth they were teaching.

Here is how I do it. Much of the words are in a cultural specific setting. Distill away the particulars and go for the core.
To me that is Love thy enemies; Don't hate, Find inner peace and Do good as you see it.

Regards and love
Mikkel

 

[ChristineM]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

You can't be sure they even existed, yet alone spoke words you see in the holy books , thats why it's called faith

 

[Martin]

Personally, i do not doubt that these people have existed, but what i try to get say is that even we have the Bible, Quran or Suttas they are today only a reference to what this great masters actually did say and teach. Because people later have done their own interpretation of older scriptures and made new translations, and if and when the misunderstanding a word of even many words in the text, they destroy the true teaching, and it becomes very difficult to follow them and gain the true understanding of the teaching. So it is not Jesus, Buddha or Muhammad's fault, it is the people after them that have made mistakes, that have made it more and more difficult to understand the essence of the truth they were teaching.

Interesting point about old and new translations. I've found it useful to compare different translations of the same text, the differences can be very revealing.

 

[wizanda]

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said?

The same as we would with any testimony, we establish a case on cross referencing all the information, and come up with the best logical conclusion based on all the data.

Once we establish how their soul interacts; it is quite obvious when someone starts fabricating teachings that sound nothing like them.

Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings?

We can show a belief that is external to the data within the evidence provided, and in that we can show many people in the world do not deal with data logically.

Therefore we have to test things with logical hypotheses to distinguish what is actually real.

In my opinion.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The same as we would with any testimony, we establish a case on cross referencing all the information, and come up with the best logical conclusion based on all the data.

Once we establish how their soul interacts; it is quite obvious when someone starts fabricating teachings that sound nothing like them.

We can show a belief that is external to the data within the evidence provided, and in that we can show many people in the world do not deal with data logically.

Therefore we have to test things with logical hypotheses to distinguish what is actually real.

In my opinion.

But does the scriptures made more than a thousand years ago still hold the words Jesus, Buddha and so on actually did speak? Is it their words? Or are the words "created" by those who wrote it down long after the true teachers was here? Can it be that those who wrote the words down many hundreds of years later did no longer hold the truth with in them? That their understanding was less than Jesus, Buddha or Muhammad? So what is to be read today is not a true representation of the teaching that was given?

 

[Mock Turtle]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

We can't. As mentioned by others. And there is usually a feedback loop so as to make sure the messages are coherent and are backed up along the way over time. Even studying source material is fraught with difficulties when meanings change and we just didn't live then so cannot know what they had in mind when writing what they did.

 

[SalixIncendium]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

Unless we have a video recording or authenticated audio recordings, we can't be sure of anything anyone said.

 

[wizanda]

So what is to be read today is not a true representation of the teaching that was given?

It never is a true representation, words limit us; like my own poetry, written by me, can be misunderstood by many, even though I was trying to be clear.

But does the scriptures made more than a thousand years ago still hold the words Jesus, Buddha and so on actually did speak? Is it their words? Or are the words "created" by those who wrote it down long after the true teachers was here?

We can only assess if it is their words by study, and in the process we become wiser to distinguish what is real; else some just follow blindly, and generally go the wrong way.

Discernment only comes from learning to use reasoning, and analysis of different texts gives us a way to become smarter.

Put it this way, I can't stand the contradictions between John, Paul Vs the Synoptic Gospels, as I find it deformation of character; yet in learning to discern the differences in theologies, the Source of reality has elevated me spiritually in wisdom, so I thank it for the opportunity to learn to see.

We only establish truth, when all the fallacies are removed from a subject; we can more easily spot contradictions then truths, yet once all the contradictions are understood, we then have a partial truth we've comprehended, rather than only accepted at face value.

Deep wisdom comes from deep analysis.

In my opinion.

 

[leov]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

"But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil." Heb. 5

 

[Quintessence]

Unless we have a video recording or authenticated audio recordings, we can't be sure of anything anyone said.

Not even then, really. Not in this modern era where it's pretty easy to fabricate both video and audio evidence.

In any case, I generally find the source of wise words to be irrelevant. I don't care whether wisdom is allegedly uttered by some allegedly important person, an internet nobody, or the winds on the leaves. Wisdom is wisdom. If it inspires me, I really don't care where it came from.

 

[Martin]

Unless we have a video recording or authenticated audio recordings, we can't be sure of anything anyone said.

Even if we did have recordings, people would no doubt still argue about the meaning of what was said.

 

[sun rise]

Here is how I do it. Much of the words are in a cultural specific setting. Distill away the particulars and go for the core.
To me that is Love thy enemies; Don't hate, Find inner peace and Do good as you see it.

Yes, I see it that way as well. And the core of the teachings are the same when you allow for different language.

But does the scriptures made more than a thousand years ago still hold the words Jesus, Buddha and so on actually did speak? Is it their words? Or are the words "created" by those who wrote it down long after the true teachers was here?

Why is that important to you?

I believe that the words were changed along the way. That is one reason I'm not a scriptural literalist.

But as @mikkel_the_dane noted, some of the teachings were meant for the time and place in which they were given. Times change. But the living essence at the core of all does not change.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Often in discussion both online and in person to person, one can hear/read they say, Jesus said this or Buddha said this. But how can we verify that it is exactly this that was said? Has the person you speak with actually understood the true words of this great masters from the past? Or is it their own interpretation of what they have read in the different spiritual teachings? and they "forget" to say, this is my understanding of Jesus, Buddha Muhammad's words.
I have fallen for this mistake my self in more than one occasion, but it has made me think, maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

It doesn't matter. The Buddha said his words will change in accordance to people's understandings. Same teachings the channel isn't fixed. In The Dharma, it's the Practice. I guess it depends on if the Practice works for you or not.

I never got how books can speak for a divine source. I scratch my head.

 

[Thief]

maybe one have to be careful with how we put the teaching forth?

and the Pharisees did ask
Which law is greatest?

and He replied.....Love God

chalk up one for the Carpenter......no retort or rebuttal
they could not say ...Nay

so...still wanting their argument.....
Which law is SECOND greatest?

Do unto others as you would have it done unto you

oh oh
heathen law
carved in stone centuries before the Carpenter

and they sought to have Him dead from that hour onward

for He had quoted the common word before quoting Moses

oooops

 

[Aupmanyav]

Other than the Greeks, the Buddha, the Hindus (don't know about Chinese thought), did they say anything new?

 

[Iymus]

How can we be sure of what the spiritual teacher like Jesus, Buddha Sakyamuni, Muhammad Actually said out loud in their teachings?

Our Environment; If Artificial then life experiences, observations, relationships, roles and responsibilities, meditation , study , and listening.

When there are practical examples of their teachings.