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Featured How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How did Israel suffer for the sins of others?
     
  2. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    persecution? maybe the other nations sin by persecuting Israel, and then Israel suffers?
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    While Israel didn't suffer for their sins, how did they suffer for the sins of others when they were being persecuted?
     
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    I'm not sure how to explain it any other way. My answer to this would be simply repeating what I said previously.
     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Israel cannot be the suffering servant because the context about that chapter was about the Messiah. The Astonishing Servant of Jehovah

     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Because Jesus had finished His work and humanity needed a new Messiah to do what Jesus left undone.

    John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

    John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
     
  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why would there be a Savior who isn't God? God is the only Savior there is.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I thought Jesus was the Savior?
    But that's true, ultimately it is God who saves.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why would there be another Messiah if Jesus is the Savior? I remember people who were talking about mindfulness were saying that someone was a Messiah, and I find that blasphemous.
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Jesus was Savior but we have already been saved by the cross sacrifice so Jesus finished His work.
    Here is why we needed a new Messiah to do more work:

    “The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, O Hakím, to effect in the constituent elements of any of the minute and indivisible particles of matter so complete a transformation as to transmute it into purest gold? Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 200


    “How long will humanity persist in its waywardness? How long will injustice continue? How long is chaos and confusion to reign amongst men? How long will discord agitate the face of society?… The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divideth and afflicteth the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appeareth to be lamentably defective.”
    Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 216
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why would there be another Messiah if God is the only one who delivers?
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Because God needed a Messiah to deliver His message to humanity.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    God delivered His message to humanity when he became the Messiah.
     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    God did not become the Messiah. The Messiah delivered God's message for God.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is both God and the Messiah. Is Yeshua Hamashiach the proper Hebrew name/title for Jesus Christ? | GotQuestions.org

     
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  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus as the Messiah came to save us and teach us how to live.
     
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  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That's true.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Similar to Savior, Messiah is a term that I believe only should be used for God.
     
  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe that both titles refer to a Manifestation of God, not to God.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why would God not be a Savior? I remember someone saying that they didn't agree with someone else saying that a doctor saved their life because only God saves.
     
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