How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

[Skywalker]

Christ also said that there would be true paths to follow and how to determine who were true and who were false.

Regards Tony

Christ said in Matthew 7:14

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Skywalker]

Good morning CG, I have an RDO today.

I do not see a conflict. What is happening here is just a disagreement on interpretation. I can agree to disagree and get on with life.

I see no Christian in this day can quote any source of Authority in interpretation, as that has been lost since the Message of Muhammad was brought to humanity. It can also be shown that the Christian Church by the end of the AD300's was already adding meaning to the Word in the Bible, by setting doctrinal beliefs, which was warned against in that same book. As you are aware, the interpretation I use is taken from the either the Quran which also finds interpretation in the writings of the Baha'i Faith and the writings of the Baha'i Faith.

So I am happy to just plain and simply leave it at that. Unless one has more questions?

Regards Tony

How could Muhammad have given a message from God if the Quran has contradictions?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Christ said in Matthew 7:14

The Bab means Gate.

I personally see the Gate is via the Messenger and what they offered, not via claiming faith in the Messenger and choosing ones own view of what they offered.

That is the quandary we all face in this life.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How could Muhammad have given a message from God if the Quran has contradictions?

Firstly I see no contradiction in the Quran.

The Christains made sure they did a good job of putting a lot of false thoughts out there, knowing that some mud sticks when it is thrown.

God let's our heart choose and I would ask, have you searched to find the real truth about Muhammad, or do you go to sites looking to support a preconceived view?

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

Firstly I see no contradiction in the Quran.

The Christains made sure they did a good job of putting a lot of false thoughts out there, knowing that some mud sticks when it is thrown.

God let's our heart choose and I would ask, have you searched to find the real truth about Muhammad, or do you go to sites looking to support a preconceived view?

Regards Tony

Certain details in the Quran agree with Christian doctrine while others disagree with the Trinity.

The Quran also says that Christians believe that Mary is a part of the Trinity, something that is never mentioned in the Bible. That is where the Quran disagrees with the Christianity and one of the reasons I don't believe it's a message from God.

 

[Skywalker]

The Bab means Gate.

I personally see the Gate is via the Messenger and what they offered, not via claiming faith in the Messenger and choosing ones own view of what they offered.

That is the quandary we all face in this life.

Regards Tony

The quandary is that a lot of things tempt people to the broad road to destruction because people want to be their own God and not follow God. Rob Bell: Populating Hell | Good Fight Ministries

Contrary to Bell’s heretical teaching that Jesus will accept their repentance later in Hell, Jesus said many “will try to enter and will not be able to.”

Who then is really hijacking the Christian faith?

Apparently, it is Rob Bell and other Emergent Leaders who have sought to distort the message of Jesus by telling stories that make the masses feel comfortable in their sin. After all, if they go to Hell, Bell assures them that he believes God will give them many more opportunities to come to God!

Sadly, such teaching will lead many to conclude, “Who cares how wickedly we live? Who cares about those who are starving to death around the world and who have not heard the Gospel? Who cares how many lives we destroy? Why not live like ‘hell’ if we can still go to Heaven?” As the song by Prince states, “Let’s party like it’s 1999!”

Rob Bell states that those who hold to what has traditionally been understood to be the biblical teaching of Heaven and Hell “don’t throw very good parties” (p. 179). That may be true… if you “call evil good and good evil” (Isaiah 5:20) and you believe, contrary to the scriptures, that “drunkards, adulterers and fornicators will inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Cor. 6:9-10, Eph. 5:5-8, Gal. 5:19-21, 6:7-9, Rev. 21:8, 22:15)

Of course, if you are a Universalist like Bell, you are ignoring Christ’s warnings of the eternality of Hell and His call to holiness and the narrow road. You are misleading the masses and providing them with a false hope that they will one day get to Heaven… eventually.

For Rob Bell, the gate to eternal life is broad. Bell states in Love Wins, “What Jesus does is declare that he, and he alone, is saving everybody. And then he leaves the door way, way open.” According to Bell, so broad and wide is the narrow road, that you can take the broad road to Hell with the assurance that Jesus continues to “leave the door way, way open” until you decide to take the wide gate into Heaven. Contrasting this to the teachings of Jesus, this is an outright lie and a major deception!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Certain details in the Quran agree with Christian doctrine while others disagree with the Trinity.

Exactly, and I now see there is absolutely no point of us talking about Faith anymore, I am happy for you to wait for what you wait for.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

So what? Beliefs are not proof of anything.

There is evidence for the resurrection of Christ beyond what the apostles believed. They had nothing to gain from being persecuted from proclaiming the gospel.

Harvard Law Professor Coverts To Christianity After Trying To Disprove Resurrection Of Jesus | Reasons for Jesus

As a professed atheist, and while teaching law at Harvard, Greenleaf stated to his class that the resurrection of Jesus Christ was a legend (2). This was obvious for him given that miracles were impossible. However, a few of his students responded to his skepticism and challenged him to apply his rules of evidence to the historical resurrection evidence (3). Greenleaf eventually accepted their challenge, and set out to prove that the resurrection of Jesus was false.

However, during the course of his examination into the historical evidence he found his atheism to be challenged on many fronts. Of primary concern to him was his inability to explain away the dramatic change in Jesus’ disciples’ disposition, and their subsequent willingness to suffer and die for their testimony.

I want to briefly flesh Greenleaf’s argument. As I argued elsewhere the historical evidence for this is fairly sufficient. The disciples feared that they would meet the same fate as Jesus did if they were found to be associated with him, which they were for a full three years. According to our gospel testimony we are told that they went into hiding behind locked doors following the crucifixion (John 20:19), they were also afraid to publicly talk about Jesus (John 7:13), and during Jesus’ arrest they fled (Mark 14:50; Matthew 26:56).

However, as Greenleaf observed, this group of fearful men had a radical transformation. According to the book of Acts we find that the apostles boldly proclaimed the risen Jesus with the resurrection was their central message. Both Jesus’ apostles Peter and John are imprisoned for this (Acts 4), and in Acts 5 we see that apostles are arrested, imprisoned, and flogged. Acts 12 informs us about the martyrdom of James, the brother of John, and another imprisonment of Peter.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is evidence for the resurrection of Christ beyond what the apostles believed. They had nothing to gain from being persecuted from proclaiming the gospel.

Harvard Law Professor Coverts To Christianity After Trying To Disprove Resurrection Of Jesus | Reasons for Jesus

I cannot believe that anyone would convert to Christianity just because they believed that Jesus rose form the dead.
Who cares even of Jesus did rise from the dead? How does that prove that Christianity is the one true religion? It doesn't.

A body is just a body, it is of no significance. We are not our body, we are our soul.
It was the Church that made a big deal out of the bodily resurrection. By making such a big deal out of the bodily resurrection Christians are glorifying the flesh, which goes against everything Jesus taught.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
.

 

[Skywalker]

I cannot believe that anyone would convert to Christianity just because they believed that Jesus rose form the dead.
Who cares even of Jesus did rise from the dead? How does that prove that Christianity is the one true religion? It doesn't.

A body is just a body, it is of no significance. We are not our body, we are our soul.
It was the Church that made a big deal out of the bodily resurrection. By making such a big deal out of the bodily resurrection Christians are glorifying the flesh, which goes against everything Jesus taught.

John 3:5-7 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
.

Why would Jesus have risen from the dead if he wasn't God? Jesus was brought back to life by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11.

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why would Jesus have risen from the dead if he wasn't God? Jesus was brought back to life by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11.

God cannot die so God cannot rise from the dead.
I do not believe that Jesus was brought back to physical life.
The physical body is not important because the soul is who we are as a person.

Jesus never died, only His body died, but His soul continued to live and took on a new form in the spiritual world (heaven).

 

[Skywalker]

God cannot die so God cannot rise from the dead.
I do not believe that Jesus was brought back to physical life.
The physical body is not important because the soul is who we are as a person.

Jesus never died, only His body died, but His soul continued to live and took on a new form in the spiritual world (heaven).

We are body, soul, and spirit. That's why the dead will be resurrected. Daniel 12:2 mentions this.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Skywalker]

God cannot die so God cannot rise from the dead.
I do not believe that Jesus was brought back to physical life.
The physical body is not important because the soul is who we are as a person.

Jesus never died, only His body died, but His soul continued to live and took on a new form in the spiritual world (heaven).

The belief is the Messiah resurrecting is an ancient belief that even continues today in people who reject Christ. Those who don't believe in Christ agreeing with the Messiah resurrecting is unbiased evidence that supports that Jesus came back to life. Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson had followers who believe that he will resurrect in the end times, as Messiah. This belief goes back to the Bible.

Psalm 16:10

“For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.”

 

[Trailblazer]

We are body, soul, and spirit. That's why the dead will be resurrected. Daniel 12:2 mentions this.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Everlasting life has nothing to do with the physical body, it is a state of the soul that is near to God.
One can have everlasting life on Earth and in heaven.

We are only a physical body while we are alive on Earth because physical bodies can only live in Earth where there is air and water. The spiritual world is not physical so physical bodies cannot exist there.

The soul is the spirit, they are not separate entities:

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.

But the mind is the power of the human spirit. Spirit is the lamp; mind is the light which shines from the lamp. Spirit is the tree, and the mind is the fruit. Mind is the perfection of the spirit and is its essential quality, as the sun’s rays are the essential necessity of the sun.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 208-209

55: SOUL, SPIRIT AND MIND

 

[dybmh]

Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson had followers who believe that he will resurrect in the end times, as Messiah.

no, no,

If he ressurects it will be because he's a tzaddik, not because he's the messiah.

 

[Trailblazer]

The belief is the Messiah resurrecting is an ancient belief that even continues today in people who reject Christ. Those who don't believe in Christ agreeing with the Messiah resurrecting is unbiased evidence that supports that Jesus came back to life. Lubavitcher Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson had followers who believe that he will resurrect in the end times, as Messiah. This belief goes back to the Bible.

Psalm 16:10

Beliefs are just beliefs, they have nothing to do with reality. Beliefs can be true or false, but how many people believe something has nothing to do with whether it is true or false. That is called the fallacy of argumentum ad populum

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia​

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

The belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ has done more damage to humanity than any other single belief.

 

[Skywalker]

Beliefs are just beliefs, they have nothing to do with reality. Beliefs can be true or false, but how many people believe something has nothing to do with whether it is true or false. That is called the fallacy of argumentum ad populum

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia​

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

The belief in the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ has done more damage to humanity than any other single belief.

I was mentioning evidence from those who reject Jesus that support that Jesus resurrected.

 

[Skywalker]

no, no,

If he ressurects it will be because he's a tzaddik, not because he's the messiah.

Psalm 16:10 mentions the Messiah resurrecting.

 

[Skywalker]

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Everlasting life has nothing to do with the physical body, it is a state of the soul that is near to God.
One can have everlasting life on Earth and in heaven.

We are only a physical body while we are alive on Earth because physical bodies can only live in Earth where there is air and water. The spiritual world is not physical so physical bodies cannot exist there.

The soul is the spirit, they are not separate entities:

“The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names—the human spirit and the rational soul—designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.

But the mind is the power of the human spirit. Spirit is the lamp; mind is the light which shines from the lamp. Spirit is the tree, and the mind is the fruit. Mind is the perfection of the spirit and is its essential quality, as the sun’s rays are the essential necessity of the sun.” Some Answered Questions, pp. 208-209

55: SOUL, SPIRIT AND MIND

Daniel was talking about the resurrection of the dead. Humans were created to live on earth, not in heaven. What About Daniel's Prophecy of the General Resurrection?

The event foretold by Daniel is that which shall occur when those who “sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake.”The expression “in the dust of the earth” is an obvious allusion to the physical curse placed upon humanity as a result of Adam’s transgression, namely a return to the dust from which man initially was taken (Gen. 3:19; cf. Job 34:15; Ps. 104:29; Eccl. 3:20; 12:7).The disassociation of physical death (as well as spiritual death) from the consequence of sin (as attempted by Smith, pp. 15ff) is an exercise in irresponsible Bible exegesis.

“Sleep” is a description of the disposition of the body that is planted in the ground upon death.The deceased body is figuratively depicted as “sleeping” due to “the similarity in appearance between a sleeping body and a dead body.” The most common NT word representing death as a “sleep” is the Greek koimaomai, meaning “to lie down.”The term is related to koimeterion, a “rest-house” for travelers, from which is derived our English “cemetery” – a place for sleeping bodies!Koimaomai is found 18 times in the NT, and only 4 of these refer to literal sleep.The rest allude to the sleep of the body in death.W.E. Vine has clearly shown that only the “body” is in view in these metaphorical references (see: ASLEEP, p. 51).The soul or spirit of man is never said to “sleep” in death (contra Smith, pp. 92ff).

The phraseology of Daniel 12:2 thus speaks of the “waking” of the human body, i.e., the resurrection of the body (cf. Jn. 11:11; 1 Cor. 15) at the time of Christ’s return.It constitutes a woeful misuse of this passage to cite it as a proof-text for “soul-sleeping” between the event of one’s death and the resurrection of his body.

 

[dybmh]

Psalm 16:10 mentions the Messiah resurrecting.

I think I see why you would think so...