How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

[Skywalker]

If "Christ" is the same as saying "the anointed one" or "The Messiah", then the Baha'is have two people claiming that... Just how many "The Messiahs" were prophesied to come for the Jews? Baha'is have to include Jesus, Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. They were all "Anointed Ones" or the Baha'i word "manifestations", supposedly. Most of the prophecies that have a year or day mentioned in it, most end in the year 1844. That is not Baha'u'llah. That is The Bab. It doesn't bother Baha'is all that much, because that just say that is when the "New Era" or "New dispensation" started. Oh, and another thing... I've asked multiple times for their interpretation of the "Lamb" and "The Lamb that was Slain." There is nothing official from the Baha'i infallible ones. All I've gotten is guesses by individual Baha'is. One of them says that the Lamb that was slain refers to the Bab. I think that everything in the book of Revelation implies that the Lamb and the Lamb that was slain is Jesus.

They are consistently unbelievable. I agree, that is what it says in the gospels. Although, each story varies a little bit. So as some Baha'is have pointed out that it is scientifically impossible, even though they believe God can do anything. Then he appears and disappears. A physical body can't do that. Then, he floats off into the clouds. Most all of that could have been easily made up. However, what about the empty tomb and not producing the dead body? Were the gospels written so many years later that nobody could prove otherwise? But then, when was the tomb found empty? If they didn't make up the story until years later, was the body still in the tomb?

The other thing that goes against the Baha'i interpretation is that the dying and rising of Jesus is foundational to everything that the NT is saying about Jesus... that he came to die, then rise from the dead to prove that through him people could gain eternal life. So, for me, it is almost impossible to believe all of it. But it is also impossible to reject all of it. And Baha'is, essentially reject most all the important stuff of the NT.

But, since this is about why a Jew would reject all these "messengers", none of them fit with what they believe. A dying and rising savior God/man? Rejected, too pagan. Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah? Rejected. The Jews are waiting for a Jewish Messiah not an Arabian or Persian.

Now I do believe that if everybody rejected their old religious beliefs and all followed the basic beliefs of the Baha'i Faith that things could be better. That all people learn to live in harmony by rejecting the racial and religious beliefs that separate them. The only thing is... Is Baha'u'llah really the "Promised One" of every single religion? For me, they have too many flaky answers and interpretations.... too many out of context "fulfilled" prophecies. Like the "Comforter" being Baha'u'llah? But the strangest one is that Baha'u'llah is the "Prince of this World"? How do they get that from the context? It sure seems to be Satan to me. Plus, to believe in the Baha'i Faith makes most all of the Bible and NT fictional.

And, like I tell them, if I'm going to go that far then I'm going to call it myth.... Nothing but religious myth. But, like I also say, if people believe that the myth is real, it works. Lots of people have strange beliefs. Like throwing virgins into a volcano, but every time they did that... they had good crops. So I believe, even if some of the beliefs are wrong, Christianity can and does work for those that believe. And I also believe that lots of people are just "nominal" believers and that some people are phonies and taking advantage of the people for their own gain. Like really how many Rolls Royce's, Jet planes and mansions does an evangelist really need? Anyway, keep believing and keep up the challenging questions to the Baha'is. Too many Christians just ignore them.

Only one Messiah was supposed to come. I believe that the doctrine of two Messiahs was made as a replacement for God, similar to how Santa Claus is a replacement for God. It's not easy to believe that we are sinners who need a Savior so people come up with teachings like Jesus being a good man or a sage or a prophet.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Now I do believe that if everybody rejected their old religious beliefs and all followed the basic beliefs of the Baha'i Faith that things could be better

One must reject what man has made of some faiths and then embrace them in the Spirit they were given.

As such, all that is given up is self. What is gained is recognition of the Spirit, the entire purpose of all the Messengers.

Such is the quandary all of humanity now faces. IMHO

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Only one Messiah was supposed to come. I believe that the doctrine of two Messiahs was made as a replacement for God, similar to how Santa Claus is a replacement for God. It's not easy to believe that we are sinners who need a Savior so people come up with teachings like Jesus being a good man or a sage or a prophet.

I agree that from a Jewish pov I think they are only expecting one Messiah. From a Christian pov, Jesus is that one Messiah and is coming back. For Baha'is, they have to give good reasons why all the major religions are all true, even though they all believe in lots of contradictory things.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I agree that from a Jewish pov I think they are only expecting one Messiah. From a Christian pov, Jesus is that one Messiah and is coming back. For Baha'is, they have to give good reasons why all the major religions are all true, even though they all believe in lots of contradictory things.

I see absolutely no contradictions. I do see our inability to grasp spiritual concepts, but that is understandable, we are still young in the evolution of the human mind.

That is our life,our chosen frames of reference.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

I agree that from a Jewish pov I think they are only expecting one Messiah. From a Christian pov, Jesus is that one Messiah and is coming back. For Baha'is, they have to give good reasons why all the major religions are all true, even though they all believe in lots of contradictory things.

Regarding Bahulllah being the Messiah, there's no need for there to be a second Messiah coming back. Jesus doesn't share his glory with anyone and there's no reason he couldn't come back in his ressurection body.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Regarding Bahulllah being the Messiah, there's no need for there to be a second Messiah coming back. Jesus doesn't share his glory with anyone and there's no reason he couldn't come back in his ressurection body.

The other alternative is that Jesus was not the end of ages Messiah that the Jews await.

I have great Love and confidence that the Jews will fulfill their destiny. I do apologies to them, for this OP, it was a moment I could not take back. May G_d bless them, one and all and may G_d spread that blessing to all others.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

One must reject what man has made of some faiths and then embrace them in the Spirit they were given.

As such, all that is given up is self. What is gained is recognition of the Spirit, the entire purpose of all the Messengers.

Such is the quandary all of humanity now faces. IMHO

Regards Tony

It's more than rejecting "man made" beliefs. Baha'is reject things that are stated in the Scriptures of the other religions. Like for how long are the Jews supposed to keep God's laws? I know in English there are words like "forever" "for all your days" "for all your generations". Then Baha'is come and say that the God's laws of every religion are only temporary and get replaced by the new laws of God brought by the new messenger. But where did God tell that to the Jews? And if the new laws brought by the new messenger then why didn't the laws of Hinduism get replaced by the laws of Moses? Those things didn't happen, because, I believe, those religions were for specific people and a specific culture. Like I'm totally sure the Hindus that are vegetarians and see some animals as sacred are going to follow God's new laws and cut the throats of animals, chop them to pieces and burn them in a fire... as if God really needed that. But for the Jews, it is what they believe their God required of them. And the Hindu Gods required them to not kill the animals. What's the Baha'is explanation of that?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's more than rejecting "man made" beliefs. Baha'is reject things that are stated in the Scriptures of the other religions. Like for how long are the Jews supposed to keep God's laws? I know in English there are words like "forever" "for all your days" "for all your generations". Then Baha'is come and say that the God's laws of every religion are only temporary and get replaced by the new laws of God brought by the new messenger. But where did God tell that to the Jews?

If one accepts God's Messenger, the laws are also accepted.

The only change here is ones own frame of reference. G_d does as G_d wills and who are we not to accept when God renews the laws we are meant to practice?

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

The other alternative is that Jesus was not the end of ages Messiah that the Jews await.

I have great Love and confidence that the Jews will fulfill their destiny. I do apologies to them, for this OP, it was a moment I could not take back. May G_d bless them, one and all and may G_d spread that blessing to all others.

Regards Tony

Why would Jesus not be the Messiah? The Old Testament talks about the Messiah being a Savior and Job mentioned that there is no mediator between him and God. Jesus was the coming Messiah he looked to, who was also the mediator.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And if the new laws brought by the new messenger then why didn't the laws of Hinduism get replaced by the laws of Moses? Those things didn't happen, because, I believe, those religions were for specific people and a specific culture. Like I'm totally sure the Hindus that are vegetarians and see some animals as sacred are going to follow God's new laws and cut the throats of animals, chop them to pieces and burn them in a fire... as if God really needed that. But for the Jews, it is what they believe their God required of them. And the Hindu Gods required them to not kill the animals. What's the Baha'is explanation of that?

You are free to see it any way you wish to CG, I am not here to convince you to take any direction but what you choose.

Progressive revelation as explained in the Kitab-i-iqan explains it to me in great detail, logically and beautiful.

"This is the Day in which the testimony of the Lord hath been fulfilled, the Day in which the Word of God hath been made manifest, and His evidence firmly established. His voice is calling you unto that which shall profit you, and enjoineth you to observe that which shall draw you nigh unto God, the Lord of Revelation." Bahá’u’lláh - Kitab-i-iqan

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why would Jesus not be the Messiah? The Old Testament talks about the Messiah being a Savior and Job mentioned that there is no mediator between him and God. Jesus was the coming Messiah he looked to, who was also the mediator.

Look at history, it has been 2021 years. It was not until the 1800's that the majority of the prophecy started unfolding.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

Look at history, it has been 2021 years. It was not until the 1800's that the majority of the prophecy started unfolding.

Regards Tony

Jesus will bring 1000 years of peace when he returns. The Bab didn't bring 1000 years of peace.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Jesus will bring 1000 years of peace when he returns. The Bab didn't bring 1000 years of peace.

Baha'u'llah confirmed the next Messenger will come after a full expiration of a full 1000 years.

The Bab did indeed bring peace, who said we would all accept it?

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

Baha'u'llah confirmed the next Messenger will come after a full expiration of a full 1000 years.

The Bab did indeed bring peace, who said we would all accept it?

Regards Tony

Just because not everyone accepted Jesus after he came doesnt mean that the same thing happened with the Bab.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Just because not everyone accepted Jesus after he came doesnt mean that the same thing happened with the Bab.

Well history shows that for 6 years the Bab suffered as Jesus Did, faced a farce of a trial as Jesus did and was sentenced to death as Jesus was. The Bab was suspended on a wall and shot by with 750 bullets.

That was because the Bab said he was the One awaited by all Faiths, at his trial the Bab was questioned and replied;

"........ Whom do you claim to be,” he asked the Báb, “and what is the message which you have brought?” “I am,” thrice exclaimed the Báb, “I am, I am, the promised One! I am the One whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at whose mention you have risen, whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten. Verily I say, it is incumbent upon the peoples of both the East and the West to obey My word and to pledge allegiance to My person.”........ "

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

Well history shows that for 6 years the Bab suffered as Jesus Did, faced a farce of a trial as Jesus did and was sentenced to death as Jesus was. The Bab was suspended on a wall and shot by with 750 bullets.

That was because the Bab said he was the One awaited by all Faiths, at his trial the Bab was questioned and replied;

"........ Whom do you claim to be,” he asked the Báb, “and what is the message which you have brought?” “I am,” thrice exclaimed the Báb, “I am, I am, the promised One! I am the One whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at whose mention you have risen, whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten. Verily I say, it is incumbent upon the peoples of both the East and the West to obey My word and to pledge allegiance to My person.”........ "

Regards Tony

The Antichrist will be a world leader and everyone will think he will bring peace.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The Antichrist will be a world leader and everyone will think he will bring peace.

Luckily the Bab and Baha'u'llah were not and never wanted to be world leaders.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

Well history shows that for 6 years the Bab suffered as Jesus Did, faced a farce of a trial as Jesus did and was sentenced to death as Jesus was. The Bab was suspended on a wall and shot by with 750 bullets.

That was because the Bab said he was the One awaited by all Faiths, at his trial the Bab was questioned and replied;

"........ Whom do you claim to be,” he asked the Báb, “and what is the message which you have brought?” “I am,” thrice exclaimed the Báb, “I am, I am, the promised One! I am the One whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at whose mention you have risen, whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten. Verily I say, it is incumbent upon the peoples of both the East and the West to obey My word and to pledge allegiance to My person.”........ "

Regards Tony

Why do you think there is a person who is the One awaited by all faiths? Do you think he is just a person or is God in the flesh?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why do you think there is a person who is the One awaited by all faiths? Do you think he is just a person or is God in the flesh?

The Messengers are the Self of God, but no they are not God in the flesh.

Jesus said

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

The Messengers are the Self of God, but no they are not God in the flesh.

Jesus said

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Regards Tony

Why would a messenger be a self of God but not God in the flesh? God doesn't share his glory with anyone.