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Featured How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Which Isaiah prophecy?
    Doing what too?
     
  2. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    I need to tell no one firedragon, does not the verse speak for itself?

    One can see in a verse what they want to see.

    Regards Tony
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Verses do not speak. People read them and interpret them according to their own understanding.
    Regarding prophecies of the Messiah, the Jewish and Christian understanding is seeing in a verse what they believe will happen and/or what they want to see happen in the future.

    The Baha'i understanding is seeing in a verse what has already been fulfilled.
     
  4. ajay0

    ajay0 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to include Dada Lekhraj, the founder of the monotheistic Prajapita Brahmakumaris and Dadi Janki, the female official leader of the Prajapita Brahmakumaris for years till her death this year.

    I consider both as world figures and advocates of the monotheistic faith, and prophets sent by the One God.
     
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  5. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    What messenger? It's impossible for a person to no longer be a messenger if that person was never a messenger in the first place.

    If you understand what I've said, then how is it that you still don't understand why Jews reject the other religions?
     
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  6. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah.

    Yes there are some people that see they are not Messengers. The thing is there is more that do, than do not.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    Of course that person would need to provide evidence to support his claim, but all of this is irrelevant. What's important here is knowing and understanding the reason for their belief. At least this is my understanding of what was being asked in the OP. If I misunderstood the OP, then dismiss what I've said. But if I'm correct in my understanding of the OP and that Tony is really looking for the truth and/or to understand why Jews reject the rest, then I have already explained it. If my explanation cannot be accepted, then he does not understand what I'm saying, he is asking the wrong question or there's another intention for asking the question. Truth is dependent on the question that is being asked. Facts can be presented, but
    it's all irrelevant if it's not related to the question.


    Like I said above, the truth is dependent on the question. On numerous occasions, people seek the truth but are asking the wrong questions.

    If that is indeed the truth, then the answer to your question is, it makes sense, because the amount of people believing in something has no bearing on whether or not something is true.

    The Theory of Evolution is still true, and it remains true even during the time of its introduction eventhough the majority of people on Earth at the time, didn't believe it to be true.
     
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  8. night912

    night912 Well-Known Member

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    The amount of people's beliefs has no bearing on whether or not something is true.

    And your reply above is exactly what was needed to convince me of your dishonesty in the OP. It shows that you had no intention in wanting to understand their reason for rejecting the others. Instead, your intention was to boost your ego. Proselytizing and ego boosting does not belong in here. The things that people will do in order to make their ego just little bit bigger.

    I see no need for me to continue any further with this discussion.
     
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  9. ayin

    ayin Member

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    A Jew should reject Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah but not Jesus. He is the prophesied Messiah from the OT, he is the incarnated YHWH.
     
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  10. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Thats a different matter Tony. I meant to say that the jews would disagree with you. And of course they will accuse you of reinterpreting the Tanakh to suit your theology.
     
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  11. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    I was referring to Isaiah 9. But if you dont take that as a prophecy for Bahaullah then that's irrelevant.

    I would say, any prophecy that you would associate with Bahaullah, the Jews would reject. Thats what I was getting at with Tony.
     
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  12. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever considered that we Jews are required to reject so Christians, Muslims, and Bahai have room their respective heavens?

    Besides, we Jews have better membership cards and pension plans if we reject. Shouldn't that alone be enough. ;)
     
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  13. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    And part of that destiny is for Torah based Jews to reject anything that gets in the way of that destiny. The three paths you mentioned are not on the map for a Jew so rejection is necessary. ;)
     
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  14. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Tony. I would like to read, where and when the original thought that this prophecy was for Bahaullah was written by the Bahai's. I mean Isaiah 9. I dont mean modern day proponents, I mean the first.
     
  15. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Jewish people can qualify or disqualify Messiahs based on our scriptures. The original followers (and all the writers of the NT) were Jews. THEY saw Jesus as Messiah, as do I, so your blanket statement is incorrect.
     
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  16. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    There isn't enough cogent evidence to believe any of this crap, and no one is providing any. There are people who think that they are, but those people are exactly like those contestants on American Idol who think they can sing, but the judges all make strange, contorted faces at because they sound just plain awful. In other words... you're hurting our ears. Please stop.
     
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  17. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    No, I think that the religions that have wrong conceptions will not be seeing a messiah like they imagine. I think they will be surprised when the Messiah comes that he is the original real deal.
     
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  18. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Whether all of the Torah is the word of Hashem or whether only some parts are or whether it is inspired has been a topic for quite a while.

    Not that you'd know.


    Then don't annoy us with that, annoy each other.


    My opinion is incredibly unimportant on the matter.
    Fact is that Judaism is the National Religion of the Jewish people. That's the entire claim of the Torah.
    Whether Hashem made similar pacts with other people or send them prophets is not our problem.


    Are you okay?
    You just disproved your very own Religion.
    Most people do not believe in it. Therefore it cannot be so.

    You aren't as smart as you think you are.


    Understandable, who doesn't lash out to the Jews when they are stressed.

    Great stuff.
     
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  19. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    Why would one decide it is ego and dishonesty behind such a question?

    The question has been around for 1000's of years.

    The question has to have a logical answer as up to the mid to late 1800's, the Jews were not allowed back in the Holy land. Christianity had lost the Holy Land, the Muslim empire had control for centuries. The Baha'i Faith entered in the late 1800's and Islam lost its hold all at the tine the Jews were given the right to return.

    What does Prophecy say about the return of the Jew to the holy land?

    So instead of making it personal, try to look at the question with an open mind.

    At least offer a thought as to why Christians, Muslims and Baha'is see they worship the same God as the Jew, even if other people say it is not the same God.

    Regards Tony
     
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg One Planet One People Please
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    What evidence would you like?

    Let us consider what may be evidence from God, which history has provided.

    Isaiah 11 tells the story.

    Why is it that up until the mid to late 1800's the Jews were not permitted back into the Holy Land?

    More than happy to discuss Isaiah 11, the final verse 16 is my longing to fulfil in my lifetime, a pilgrimage from Baghdad to Akka and Mount Carmel.

    Regards Tony
     
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