How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

[TransmutingSoul]

And this is Trailblazer's response. So, still, do Baha'is believe that any one of the many sects or denominations of Christianity teach, believe, and practice the Truth? If not, then why would a Jew leave their religion, a religion that Baha'is also don't think is being practiced correctly and that has some wrong beliefs, and join up any of the many Christians groups?

Truth in this world, through the eyes of men, is only relative CG.

As such we get to choose our reality and how we will see life and Faith.

The Truth is within all of us, as Truth cones from the Spirit that sustains us.

It is all about our chosen frames of references. No one is wrong in their chosen frame of reference, as that is their reality.

I see that I have not been able to impart what Baha'u'llah offered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Prior to the coming of the Baha'i Faith, was any religion perfectly believing and following the Truth from God? Including Islam? If not, then it would have done zero good for anybody to convert to any of the religions.

I see you are showing in this statement why there is need for progression and what happens when we are not open to progressive revelation from God.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

They were not revealed religions unless their prophet got a revelation from God. I do not believe that was the case for all so-called religions.

I think most of them had a guy who had a vision or something. Just like Joseph Smith had the Angel Moroni, you know him don't you? Native people had lots of their leaders go out and fast and pray and come back with a vision. People like Confucius or Lao-Tzu maybe had a vision. Who knows. If not, where did they get their knowledge and inspiration if not from God?

I do not believe that God told them to do these things. Myths are just stories and no myths are true, that is why they are called myths.

Yet, the True God told the Israelites to sacrifice animals to him? Sounds just as mythical as the God of the Aztecs telling them that if they sacrifice a human, they will have good crops and prosper. But I'm okay with not believing that most of these religions were man-made. I just think a lot of the things in all religions, except the Baha'i Faith of course, are man-made.

Like, again, having their guy walk on water and come back to life? Sounds mythical. Have him get born from a woman that never had sex with a man? Where did the second half of the Chromosomes come from? God impregnated her? Either way, sounds mythical. After he rose from the dead, he ascended into the clouds? Sounds mythical. When he was killed the graves of the saints were opened and they walked through Jerusalem? Sounds mythical. But no, these "mythical" sounding things are explained away by Baha'is by saying that they were never meant to be taken literally, just symbolically. We don't know anything about what Jesus might have said and done. And without the myths and legends, he might not have really done much. We don't know... unless we believe the NT. But then what do we keep as true and what do we dump as not so true? Ah yes, we listen to the Baha'is. Virgin born? Yes. Rise physically from the dead and ascended into heaven? No. He is the "only" way? No, for that time he was but not forever. And so on.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There would be not a person in this age that has not been told of and thus does not know of 'God'.

Knowing about God, and knowing God (which is what is prophesied) are two very different things.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG, I already beleive in Jesus the Christ, they offer a different versions of The Message given by Jesus in the Bible. I do not see those interpretations reflect fully the Message of Christ.

The Key here is, will they look outside the Name of Jesus and look for Christ in other claimed Mesengers?

Regards Tony

Yes, so they have to look beyond their religious beliefs. Except, they are thinking the same thing about you and your beliefs about the Baha'i Faith. If you will only listen to them and study the Word with them, they will show you the Truth. So what do you do? Do you study with them with the hopes of sharing things about the Baha'i Faith that might change their minds? Probably futile. Do you give them a pamphlet about the Baha'i Faith... and then take one of theirs? Then both of you probably throw them away without reading them, because each "knows" that the pamphlet is not saying things that are true. Or you both go you ways and maybe never seeing about each other again?

 

[Trailblazer]

And this is Trailblazer's response. So, still, do Baha'is believe that any one of the many sects or denominations of Christianity teach, believe, and practice the Truth? If not, then why would a Jew leave their religion, a religion that Baha'is also don't think is being practiced correctly and that has some wrong beliefs, and join up any of the many Christians groups?

No Baha'is ever suggested that the Jews should leave their religion and join up with Christian groups or believe Christian beliefs. All we ever said is that Jews should have recognized Jesus as a Manifestation of God.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Oh and its Palestine, not Israel.

It depends where they are visiting. If they are going to Bethlehem, that is indeed in the Westbank, which is set apart for the future state of Palestine. If they are visiting Jerusalem or Nazareth, that is Israel.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, and glad you came back. Poor TB has been left all alone here.

Thanks and ditto on that, as I am also glad to see Tony.

 

[CG Didymus]

I see that I have not been able to impart what Baha'u'llah offered.

And what has Baha'u'llah offered? How is peace going to get established? When will it be established? What will the world look like once it is established? In other threads Old Badger and I had questions about living under Baha'i rule. The Baha'is assured us that the Baha'i laws are only for Baha'is. Then, how is that going to bring peace to the world? You'll have one set of laws for Baha'is and then another set of laws for the rest of the people? I don't think that is the grand vision that is being offered is it?

 

[dybmh]

Jews should have recognized Jesus as a Manifestation of God.

Should have...

The concept of "Manifestation of God" was ( in theory ) brought down long after Jesus was rejected by the Jewish people in the 2nd temple period. Those Jews at that time only had Torah. They didn't even have the Gospels.

Because of this, it's unfair to say they should have recognized Jesus. That judgement is being made based on information that they didn't have at the time.

Right?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, so they have to look beyond their religious beliefs. Except, they are thinking the same thing about you and your beliefs about the Baha'i Faith. If you will only listen to them and study the Word with them, they will show you the Truth. So what do you do? Do you study with them with the hopes of sharing things about the Baha'i Faith that might change their minds? Probably futile. Do you give them a pamphlet about the Baha'i Faith... and then take one of theirs? Then both of you probably throw them away without reading them, because each "knows" that the pamphlet is not saying things that are true. Or you both go you ways and maybe never seeing about each other again?

Consider a Baha'i reads what the Bible offers CG. There is more meaning in that Bible when one reads what Baha'u'llah offered, or Buddha offered, or what Zoroaster offered, or what Muhammad offered, or what Moses, Abraham and Krishna offered.

In that answer you will find the difference way of embracing relative truth.

I go to church and listen to what is offered in surmons, it is no wonder the followers can not think outside a box, nor think for themselves, they think a priest has the answers for them.

I had to smile, a chat after the service the other day a person said why do you follow Satan. I offered in Christ we are all One.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I think most of them had a guy who had a vision or something. Just like Joseph Smith had the Angel Moroni, you know him don't you? Native people had lots of their leaders go out and fast and pray and come back with a vision. People like Confucius or Lao-Tzu maybe had a vision. Who knows. If not, where did they get their knowledge and inspiration if not from God?

Nobody knows where they got their knowledge.

Yet, the True God told the Israelites to sacrifice animals to him? Sounds just as mythical as the God of the Aztecs telling them that if they sacrifice a human, they will have good crops and prosper. But I'm okay with not believing that most of these religions were man-made. I just think a lot of the things in all religions, except the Baha'i Faith of course, are man-made.

Like, again, having their guy walk on water and come back to life? Sounds mythical. Have him get born from a woman that never had sex with a man? Where did the second half of the Chromosomes come from? God impregnated her? Either way, sounds mythical. After he rose from the dead, he ascended into the clouds? Sounds mythical. When he was killed the graves of the saints were opened and they walked through Jerusalem? Sounds mythical. But no, these "mythical" sounding things are explained away by Baha'is by saying that they were never meant to be taken literally, just symbolically. We don't know anything about what Jesus might have said and done. And without the myths and legends, he might not have really done much. We don't know... unless we believe the NT. But then what do we keep as true and what do we dump as not so true? Ah yes, we listen to the Baha'is. Virgin born? Yes. Rise physically from the dead and ascended into heaven? No. He is the "only" way? No, for that time he was but not forever. And so on.

Why does what happened thousands of years ago matter now, in the present age?
As long as you stay stuck in the past I cannot see how you can ever move forward. There is no way you will ever be able to make sense out of the Bible or know why it was written that way, so I see it as a futile attempt to try. Maybe you just like history, some people do, but I don't have time for looking at the past.

Look around you, look at what is happening in America. It is a new day and we can see what Baha'u'llah envisioned and wrote about 150 years ago unfolding right before our very eyes, and that alone is proof of His Revelation.

I do not see any value in dwelling on the past, as a New Day has dawned and the sun is coming up over the horizon. Baha'is see that sun because we know where it came from.

 

[CG Didymus]

I see you are showing in this statement why there is need for progression and what happens when we are not open to progressive revelation from God.

Regards Tony

Yes, there was a need for God to give consistent, reliable information. But, instead, God sends messengers that let others write down the message? Even with Muhammad, the message got confused. So God finally got it together and had appointed interpreters of the message? And I'm supposed to believe this God knows what he is doing? I've seen some of the laws. I don't expect them to be enforceable. So what's going to happen? People still doing things that go against "God's" laws. People are still going to be drinking, smoking, snorting, cheating and fooling around. Some will still be greed and exploit others. And only if these things are being done by Baha'is, will Baha'is have any authority to punish them. And how are they going to punish them? Cut the hand off a thief? Then what do you do with a white-collar cheater? And what how do you stop an adulterer? Cut his thingy off? I don't think Baha'is are going to cut anything off are they? So what? A fine or prison time? Have their voting rights taken away? And that's going to stop them from doing it again? I don't know... how will it work?

One Baha'i, it might have been TB, said that at some point God will create a "new" race of men. People that are more spiritual. Great, why didn't God do that in the first place? Why did he expect people that lack enough spirituality to do the right thing? Of course most of them are going to fall short.

 

[CG Didymus]

Knowing about God, and knowing God (which is what is prophesied) are two very different things.

And you know the problem... each religion says something different about God. And Trinitarian Christians are a perfect example. They say, "Yes, there is One God... in three parts."

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And what has Baha'u'llah offered? How is peace going to get established? When will it be established? What will the world look like once it is established? In other threads Old Badger and I had questions about living under Baha'i rule. The Baha'is assured us that the Baha'i laws are only for Baha'is. Then, how is that going to bring peace to the world? You'll have one set of laws for Baha'is and then another set of laws for the rest of the people? I don't think that is the grand vision that is being offered is it?

They are all good questions one can ask their own self CG. They are questions that are our judgement and redemption, a source for our choices.

The Kitabi-aqdas is the elixer. It is what the world will in time embrace.

I am off to work. All the best in America.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

Thanks and ditto on that, as I am also glad to see Tony.

Yeah, he's come back all refreshed and ready to kick some %#&... but in a good way.

 

[CG Didymus]

They are all good questions one can ask their own self CG. They are questions that are our judgement and redemption, a source for our choices.

The Kitabi-aqdas is the elixer. It is what the world will in time embrace.

I am off to work. All the best in America.

Regards Tony

Okay Tony, catch you later.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because of this, it's unfair to say they should have recognized Jesus. That judgement is being made based on information that they didn't have at the time.

Right?

Perhaps that is true of the Jews living at that time, but more information was made available after that.

The past is gone and it cannot be changed, so the salient question is why Jews do not recognize Jesus now.

 

[dybmh]

Perhaps that is true of the Jews living at that time, but more information was made available after that.

When? I don't understand why Baha'i would expect anyone to believe in Manifestations of God pre-Bab.

The past is gone and it cannot be changed, so the salient question is why Jews do not recognize Jesus now.

It's a logical rational conclusion based on what is written about him in the Gospels and the actions of his followers since his death.

 

[dybmh]

Of course, there's this:

there is no reason to believe that Jesus was a flawless Messenger of God unless you are a Baha'i.

Doesn't this contradict with what's below?

All we ever said is that Jews should have recognized Jesus as a Manifestation of God.

I'm not trying to be rude, or start another argument. It just seems like there are mixed messages being given to Jewish people.