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Featured How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    We don't have to move any mountains to make Mount Carmel into the place where the glory of the Lord appeared in the last days.

    Isaiah prophesied that the Plain of Sharon and the holy mountain, Carmel, would both be centres for the light and presence of the ‘Glory of the Lord’ in the last days. He said:

    “The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.” (Isaiah 35:1).

    “It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God.” (Isaiah 35:2).

    “And the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.” (Isaiah 35:10).

    Again in the chapter preceding the one in which he, Isaiah, promises that God will raise up a ‘righteous man from the East’, he foretells:

    “And the Glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of God hath spoken it.” (Isaiah 40:5).


    "In that same year (1890) Bahá’u’lláh’s tent, the “Tabernacle of Glory,” was raised on Mt. Carmel, “the Hill of God and His Vineyard,” the home of Elijah, extolled by Isaiah as the “mountain of the Lord,” to which “all nations shall flow.” Four times He visited Haifa, His last visit being no less than three months long. In the course of one of these visits, when His tent was pitched in the vicinity of the Carmelite Monastery, He, the “Lord of the Vineyard,” revealed the Tablet of Carmel, remarkable for its allusions and prophecies. On another occasion He pointed out Himself to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, as He stood on the slopes of that mountain, the site which was to serve as the permanent resting-place of the Báb, and on which a befitting mausoleum was later to be erected." (God Passes By, p. 194)

    From: William Sears, Thief in the Night
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Take it up with God, if you think you know more than God.
     
  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Your God is not my God.
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    My, my, how time flies... Look what I found in my directory, a post I posted to you in October 2019. ;)

    We do not have to transfer anything, because there is no such "place" as Mt. Zion.

    Mount Zion’s Meaning

    The word “mount” is simply a shortened meaning of mountain and mountains often refer to governments or nations but often is referred to in Scripture as “the mountain of the Lord, to the Rock of Israel” (Isaiah 30:29b). In the case of Mount Zion it is representative of the Kingdom of God where we read in Hebrews 12:22 that “you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering.” That is where it is said “the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all” (Heb 12:23) will be at and it looks ahead to the New Jerusalem that will descend out of heaven (Rev 21:10-26).

    What Is Zion and The Biblical Meaning? What Is Mount Zion In The Bible?

    The government of the Baha'i Faith, the Universal House of Justice (UHJ) is located on Mt. Carmel.

    Isaiah 2:2-3 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

    “The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation. Happy is the man that pondereth in his heart that which hath been revealed in the Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Meditate upon this, O ye beloved of God, and let your ears be attentive unto His Word, so that ye may, by His grace and mercy, drink your fill from the crystal waters of constancy, and become as steadfast and immovable as the mountain in His Cause.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 12-13
     
  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Now you sound like a Christian, but the problem is that there is only one true God, the God who revealed all the religions, and Jews and Christians don't "own" that God.
     
  6. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Not interested.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Jeremiah 29:14
    And I will be found by you, says the Lord, and I will return your captivity and gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says the Lord, and I will return you to the place whence I exiled you.

    It says from all the nations and from all the places but it does not say all the Jews that live in all the nations and all the places.

    It does not say everyone in all those nations and places, so leaving out one or more people would not mean the nation or place where they are living is not included.

    It says I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you and I will return you to the place whence I exiled you.

    The question any sincere seeker of truth would who wanted to know the truth about the meaning of the verse would ask is what does Jeremiah mean by "you." He is referring to the Jews but he does not say all you Jews. Common sense and logic would tell you that because not every Jew in the world is going to be gathered up and return to Israel. But maybe that is what you want to believe since you believe the Messiah is coming just for the Jews. Maybe you want to believe that the Messiah is going to move all the Jews to Israel and the borders will be extended so they will all fit...

    People believe all kind of things and they can and do mix and match verses in their scriptures to create their own version of who the Messiah will be and what he will do. The problem is that they have no Messiah, all they have is the hope for one. I cannot say how long this will last until God finally intercedes and makes it clear who the Messiah was. I hope it is soon.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    God decides what is needed, not humans.
    God decided that Jesus would lay the foundation for the Kingdom of God on earth and Baha'u'llah would come along later to finish the job.

    There is nothing disorderly about that.
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the opinions regarding Jesus not having a second coming are self refuting. They claim to know more than Jesus, which is blasphemous. The Second Coming of Jesus: Metaphor or Literal? | Reasons for Jesus

     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    What makes Jesus returning in a different body more likely than theories like Eckhart Tolle or Christ consciousness? The Second Coming of Jesus: Metaphor or Literal? | Reasons for Jesus
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    For one thing, Jesus could not return in the same body since after He died on the cross His soul ascended to the spiritual world (heaven), to the Right Hand of God. Jesus was given a spiritual body and that is what He has now. Spiritual bodies do not reside on earth, they only reside in heaven, so Jesus can never return to earth.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    How is that different from the belief of Christ being someone within us? Bahullah sounds a lot like the Bible verse about someone believing that they are Christ or can be Christ. Bahullah is a different person saying that he is Christ. Someone saying that they are Christ can be very deceptive.
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Ignored: preaching
     
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  15. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not believe that Christ is literally within a believer. That is an allegory for having the spirit of Christ within, being close to Christ...

    Baha'u'llah never claimed to be Jesus Christ, He only ever claimed to be the return of the Spirit of Christ.

    In the following passage Baha'u'llah is saying that God and all His Messengers sent Jesus Christ to announce His (Baha'u'llah's) Coming.

    “We, in truth, have sent Him Whom We aided with the Holy Spirit (Jesus Christ) that He may announce unto you this Light that hath shone forth from the horizon of the will of your Lord, the Most Exalted, the All-Glorious, and Whose signs have been revealed in the West. Set your faces towards Him (Bahá’u’lláh) on this Day which God hath exalted above all other days, and whereon the All-Merciful hath shed the splendour of His effulgent glory upon all who are in heaven and all who are on earth.”
    Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 18


    In the following passage Baha'u'llah is saying that He is truly the one which Jesus Christ announced when He (Jesus Christ) came to you with the truth.

    “This is, truly, that which the Spirit of God (Jesus Christ) hath announced, when He came with truth unto you, He with Whom the Jewish doctors disputed, till at last they perpetrated what hath made the Holy Spirit to lament, and the tears of them that have near access to God to flow….” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 19
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    That's still the same phenomenon of another person who isn't Christ saying he is Christ, because Bahullah doesn't have the body of Jesus.
     
  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I believe that hell is the prison of self. I believe there is also a place there for people who reject God's Messengers out of sheer arrogance.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I believe that many beliefs about hell aren't necessarily the truth. I believe that hell is being alone for eternity, separated from God. How can a loving God send people to hell?

     
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  19. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    However, Jesus said that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why would good works forgive us? The Bible says by grace we are saved. IF someone committed a crime and bribed a judge to avoid punishment, they would only make their punishment worse.
     
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