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Featured How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Dec 30, 2020.

  1. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    When that happens, as I've said before, let's talk. Until then, it's just wishful thinking.
    Anyone who accepts the covenant of grace dissolves the covenant of law.
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Tanakh talks about the Messiah preforming miracles. The Messiah would perform signs of healing

     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Not all of the NT Jews followed the Old Testament legal system. The Jews in Israel don't. It's up to a person's convictions and conscience today if they want to follow the old law or not.
     
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    All I meant was that it is unjust to make judgments until you have all the facts. That is called jumping to conclusions.
    And so what if Jesus did that? If Jesus was a Messenger of God he had the authority from God to annul anything that had been revealed previously.
    Please post the verses where Jesus said He was not going to change the law.
    There is really no need for a Baha’i to prove anything about all the older Manifestations of God because they were validated by Baha’u’llah and Abdu’l-Baha.
     
  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It doesn't really say that the Messiah will do this.
    Just because the law is not followed, that doesn't mean that the law is optional.
     
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  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I believe that for Messianic Jews, following Jewish law can be part of God's convictions for them. I don't think its two religions in one is the right way to look at it.
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I am sorry, but one has nothing to do with the other. The fact that Jesus spoke in parables and used figurative language has nothing to do with whether He fulfilled the prophecies or not.
    1. How does anyone really know what Moses said or did? All you have are scriptures but they were not written by Moses, so how is that different from the fact that all we have are NT scriptures that were not written by Jesus?
    2. I disagree that just because Jesus used metaphorical language that means that the texts re not evidence of what Jesus said and did. The texts might not be credible to you, but as I said before credibility is irrelevant because all people have different standards as to what is credible. The only thing that really matters is accuracy of the texts.
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Old Covenant being dissolved doesn't mean that it's necessarily wrong to follow it. Some people grew up Jewish and believe in Jesus later on in life. Messianic Prophecies Fulfilled by Yeshua

     
  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    And the judgements made about Jews are equally unjust and are jumping to conclusions as well.
    So far there is no credible evidence that Jesus was a Messanger of God. No one really knows what Jesus said or did. The only record of this comes from the Christian bible which is not entirely literal.
    Matthew 5:18

    For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
    Great, then there shouldn't be any more comments about whether or not Jews accept Jesus as a Messiah.

     
  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Some Jewish people believe that there will be two Messiahs. That means it's possible for the Messiah to come before Israel is fully regathered. Believing in Jesus and being Jewish existing at the same time means it's not impossible for the Old and New Covenant to exist together. The Old Testament saints believed in a coming Messiah and the New Testament saints were Jewish but had faith in Jesus.

    Israel Regathered Only When Jesus Christ Returns

     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The third temple will be rebuilt when Jesus returns. Jerusalem third temple ‘fulfils Biblical prophecy’ of the end times – Keep The Faith ® The UK's Black and multi-ethnic Christian magazine
     
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Sure it does. If the Christian bible were literally true, then it would be more credible. Because it is not literally true, then it's less credible.
    Because the story of Moses never includes, "Truly I tell you, you will receive anything you ask for."
    As I said, the Tanach is a tiny bit more credible because it doesn't make this sort of claim that anyone can get anything they want if they believe.
    "Truly I tell you" is not metaphorical. It shows that the text is not accurate.
     
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  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    What Jesus taught was consistent with Old Testament law. Jesus said in Matthew 3;2, "Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

    Ezekiel 33;11 says, "Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
     
  14. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Except, the Kingdom of heaven wasn't at hand. So the part about repentance is correct, the part about the kingdom was incorrect. He was half-right and half-wrong.
     
  15. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It's not a covenant if it's not legally binding.
     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus wasn't inconsistent because the context of that verse wasn't about the second coming. The second coming wasn't at hand because it wasn't imminent, but the spread of the gospel was at hand.
     
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  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Messianic Jews and Hebrew Christians follow holidays that are from the Old Testament. They are Jewish and Christian because of their connection to the holidays of the ancient Hebrews. The festivals were ordained by God.
     
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    ^^ Mental gymnastics.

    If Jesus said the Kingdom is at hand, but it wasn't "at hand" then he wasn't correct about what he said.
     
  19. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It's not legally binding. It's not a covenant.
     
  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't mean it's not decently and in order that the first Christians were Jewish Christians. They believed in Jesus but kept their old ways and they worked beautifully together.
     
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