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How can the Jew reject, Jesus, Muhammad, Bab and Baha'u'llah?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No more means:

no more
phrase of more
  1. nothing further.
    "there was no more to be said about it"
  2. no further.
    "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
  3. exist no longer.
    "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
  4. never again.
    "mention his name no more to me"
  5. neither.
    "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Translate no more to
Definitions from Oxford Languages

Jesus was not discussing the second coming with his disciples.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If I could go back, I would not start such a OP, actually I did realise this a bit later, but it was to late, thus had to run with an obvious mistake and accept the flack.

Regards Tony
No, I do not see it as a mistake. At first I did but the later I changed my mind when I saw how popular it was. :D
A thread that gets some new and old sparring partners for me is not a mistake as long as the sparring remains civil. I had to apologize to one Jewish poster but no harm was done... Quite the opposite because I learned something from him about his beliefs and I learned what not to say from my mistake.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
All mankind would see “the abomination of desolation” foretold by Daniel the Prophet.
Who and/or what do Baha'is believe was the abomination?

Jerusalem was destroyed by the Roman Titus, in AD 70, and the Jews were scattered and exiled. The Jews tried to regain their freedom in AD 132 under Bar Kochba, but they were crushed by the armies of the Roman Emperor Hadrian. This time Jerusalem was devastated even more completely than it had been by Titus. The site of the city was ploughed under and a new city, named in honour of Hadrian, was built upon the ruins.
So we have 70AD and 132AD... but Baha'is don't start counting the 1260 years from either one.

The Romans were the first aliens (Gentiles) after the time of Christ to tread down the holy city of Jerusalem. The next aliens to seize and hold it captive were the Muslims. They conquered Jerusalem in AD 637
So Muslims conquered it in 637AD... but that's not where Baha'is start counting the 1260 years either. No, Baha'i start in 621AD the year of the Hegira and the start of the Islamic calendar. Why? Other than it's the one that gets 1260 lunar years to 1844.

“How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the abomination of desolation, to give the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” (Daniel 8:13–14)

Thus, Daniel prophesied that two thousand three hundred days (2,300) would pass before the sanctuary would be cleansed. Following this time, all things would be made pure again. Before this time, the people would have fallen into a state of ‘abomination’ without love for God or man; then the Messiah would appear and restore their Faith and the purity of their belief. This was the general conclusion.

When would this take place? Daniel said it would come to pass in 2,300 days. In prophecy, this becomes 2,300 years.

Using the same frame of reference for the second coming, as was used for the first coming (the decree of Artaxerxes), the Bible scholars made the following calculations:

1. The decree was issued in 457. They subtracted 457 from 2,300 and arrived at 1,843. Thus the year 1843, they said, would mark the beginning of the end of the ‘abomination of desolation’

2. Some scholars pointed out that from the issuing of the decree in 457 until the birth of Christ there were 456 years, not 457; therefore, it was necessary to subtract 456 from 2,300. This left the year 1844.
Again and again and again... the vision concerning the daily sacrifice , the abomination and the troddening under foot and all that? When did that happen? For Baha'is to be correct in this then in 457BC, when they were supposed to be rebuilding Jerusalem, instead the sacrifice got stopped, they fell into a state of "abomination"? And got trodden under foot? That doesn't make sense to me. Does it to you?

Why would Bahaullah return in 1844 and not Christ?
He didn't. The Bab declared himself in 1844.
 

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
There is no space issue in the spiritual world, there is room for all. :)

Right, and in order to keep it that way Torah based Jews will remain in the Torah. Because if we don't cats and dogs will start living together causing mass hysteria.

dogs-and-cats-76pyn4.jpg
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Do you think Baha'is should be trying to convince adherents of Judaism living in Israel that Baha'u'llah is the Mashiach alluded to within the Tanakh?
Isn't that who Baha'u'llah claims to be? Along with the return of every other promised one of every other major religion.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The context of the discussion with his disciples was not about discussing with them that there was no second coming.
That is irrelevant because there will be no second coming of the same man Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
No more means:

no more
phrase of more
  1. nothing further.
    "there was no more to be said about it"
  2. no further.
    "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
  3. exist no longer.
    "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
  4. never again.
    "mention his name no more to me"
  5. neither.
    "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"
Translate no more to
Definitions from Oxford Languages
Again... and that you take absolutely literally? Yet, when he raised two people from the dead and Jesus himself rose from the dead, those verses aren't literal?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
That is irrelevant because there will be no second coming of the same man Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

How can you say based on those verses that there won't be a second coming, when the existence or non existence of the second coming isn't the context of those verses?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Do you think Baha'is should be trying to convince adherents of Judaism living in Israel that Baha'u'llah is the Mashiach alluded to within the Tanakh?
No, I do not think Baha'is should be trying to convince any Jews that Baha'u'llah is the Mashiach alluded to within the Tanakh.
In fact, I do not think Baha'is should be trying to convince anyone that Baha'u'llah is the Messiah.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Who and/or what do Baha'is believe was the abomination?


So we have 70AD and 132AD... but Baha'is don't start counting the 1260 years from either one.


So Muslims conquered it in 637AD... but that's not where Baha'is start counting the 1260 years either. No, Baha'i start in 621AD the year of the Hegira and the start of the Islamic calendar. Why? Other than it's the one that gets 1260 lunar years to 1844.


Again and again and again... the vision concerning the daily sacrifice , the abomination and the troddening under foot and all that? When did that happen? For Baha'is to be correct in this then in 457BC, when they were supposed to be rebuilding Jerusalem, instead the sacrifice got stopped, they fell into a state of "abomination"? And got trodden under foot? That doesn't make sense to me. Does it to you?

He didn't. The Bab declared himself in 1844.

He didn't come on the clouds or become the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Again... and that you take absolutely literally? Yet, when he raised two people from the dead and Jesus himself rose from the dead, those verses aren't literal?
There is no other way to take it. No more means no mire, it cannot be symbolic of anything.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
How can you say based on those verses that there won't be a second coming, when the existence or non existence of the second coming isn't the context of those verses?
What do you believe the context of those verses is?
What ever gave you the idea that Jesus was coming back to earth again?
Jesus never said he was going to return to earth, not once in the entire New Testament.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
What do you believe the context of those verses is?
What ever gave you the idea that Jesus was coming back to earth again?
Jesus never said he was going to return to earth, not once in the entire New Testament.

Jesus told the apostle Peter if I want him to live until I come, what is that to you, in John 21:18-22.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Nor can we change what actually happened on the ground. ;)

Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
Okay, what is the better interpretation of the "he"? Is it "they" like some of the other translations? Then, what is the context of this one verse. How do Jews interpret it? Hmmm? Who could we ask? I know... why not a Jew?

Actually, based on the text, he hasn't. You can't change that by manipulating bad translations,
Christians and Baha'is both take one verse and make it into a prophecy. With Christians a big one is Isaiah 7:14, yet they ignore the rest of the verses. With Baha'is this one from Micah 7:12 is used a lot. In context, how do Jews interpret this verse?
 
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