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Featured How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 29, 2020.

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  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Tanakh refers to God as a Savior. Only God can truly be called a Savior.
     
  2. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    God is my savior. But others can save me in different ways too. I don't appreciate your word games.
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Would you call those other people your Savior? Certain forms of glory are only to be given to God.
     
  4. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    The word savior is a bit old fashioned in English these days. It would be odd to use it. But I'd certainly embrace them and exclaim, "You saved my life!"
     
  5. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    God IS my savior. But others can save me too. And I'm not going to disrespect what they've done by saying they havn't saved me.
     
  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The teachings of Jesus are consistent with what the Old Testament says about the Messiah. In Matthew 19:28-30, Jesus declares that he-the "Son of Man"-will rule on the glorious throne of Israel at the renewal of all things, and that his followers will rule with him. He then immediately teaches the parable of the workers and the vineyard (Matthew 20:1-16). That's where the kingdom of God is represented by a vineyard owned by an employer. The employer pays all workers equally, regardless of time worked, thereby communicating that God's grace is not based on any kind of merit such as length of service ("the first will be last and the last will be first"). Jesus is represented by the employer who owns the vineyard and dispenses grace freely. This equates him with God because, in the Old Testament, God owns the vineyard (Isaiah 5:1-7). His use of "Son of Man" is also a claim to deity.
     
  7. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    This is just wrong in so many ways. To start with, the son of man in the vision is Israel, not the messiah.
     
  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Son of Man is a reference to the Messiah. Son of man

     
  9. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Nope
     
  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Messiah having dominion over the nations matches the Christian doctrine of the Millennium.
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Historical evidence shows that communion isn't an occult practice. It's in memory of what Christ did for us on the cross. Jesus Vs Mithra – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

     
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    The idea of eating flesh and drinking blood for eternal life did not come from Judaism. Cannabalism was practiced in Egypt. One of the purposes was: "a way of guiding the souls of the dead into the bodies of living descendants." ( Human cannibalism )

    Compare that to John 14:19-20.

    It's a recipe for eternal life. The Book of John perscribes "Eat my flesh and blood ( literally or figuratively ) for eternal life. You will live, I will be in you and you in me..."

    It's an occult practice.
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Critics accuse New Testament writers of copying many of their claims about Jesus from earlier religions. One of their favorite examples is the mythological god named Mithras, whose story originated long before Jesus. They claim that Mithras was born of a virgin in a cave on December 25, was a great traveling teacher, had twelve disciples, sacrificed himself for world peace, was buried in a tomb, and rose again three days later. This appears to prove that Christianity stole its ideas about Jesus from the mystery religion of Mithraism. But what happens when we look deeper? Mithras was not born of a virgin in a cave. Historians agree that the myth actually says that Mithras emerged fully grown out of a rock! No virgins and no caves. Also, nowhere does the Bible say Jesus was born in a cave. Mithras was not born on December 25. The Bible doesn't say when Jesus was born. Some think it was in the spring, others in January. It wasn't until centuries later that Christians chose December 25 to celebrate his birth-probably, at least in part, to claim a pagan holiday for Christ. Mithras was not a traveling teacher with twelve disciples. He was supposedly a god, not a teacher. In one version of the story he had only one follower, while in another version he had two-but never twelve. Mithras didn't sacrifice himself for world peace. Actually he was known for killing a bull. He didn't sacrifice himself for anything. Mithras was not buried in a tomb and resurrected after three days. There are no records of beliefs about Mithras's death, so no resurrection either. As you can see, the alleged parallels between Mithras and Jesus dissolve under scrutiny. Those who say that Jesus was copied from MIthras generally don't have the languages, they don't study the original sources, they don't pay attention to the dates, and they frequently quote ideas that were popular in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries but have already been refuted.
     
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    That is based off their interpretation of the Old Testament and not what the Old Testament says. The Old Testament says that god is the only Savior. Isaiah 43:11 says I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.
     
  15. Poisonshady313

    Poisonshady313 Well-Known Member

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    The Hebrew word for "messiah" and the Hebrew word for "'savior" may appear remarkably similar.

    HOWEVER

    They are not the same word. They are not interchangeable. They do not share the same root. They do not mean the same thing.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The term the Messiah is a reference to Jesus reigning over Israel in the future. The Messiah’s Reign – Israel My Glory

     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Here, and please note the part I underlined at the end:
    Messiah (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ‎, mašíaḥ, or המשיח‎, mashiach; Aramaic: משיחא‎; Classical Syriac: ܡܫܺܝܚܳܐ‎, Məšîḥā; Latin: Messias) literally means 'anointed one'.[17]

    In Hebrew, the Messiah is often referred to as melekh mashiach (מלך המשיח‎; Tiberian: Meleḵ ha-Mašīaḥ, pronounced [ˈmeleχ hamaˈʃiaħ]), literally meaning 'the Anointed King'. The Greek Septuagint version of the Old Testament renders all 39 instances of the Hebrew mašíaḥ as Khristós (Χριστός).[8] The New Testament records the Greek transliteration Messias (Μεσσίας) twice in John.[Jn. 1:41][4:25]

    The literal translation of the Hebrew word mashiach (המשיח‎, messiah), is 'anointed', which refers to a ritual of consecrating someone or something by putting holy oil upon it. It is used throughout the Hebrew Bible in reference to a wide variety of individuals and objects; for example, kings, priests and prophets, the altar in the Temple, vessels, unleavened bread, and even a non-Jewish king (Cyrus the Great).[19] -- Messiah - Wikipedia




    With the issue of "savior", here:
    The Messiah in Judaism (Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ‎, romanized: māšîaḥ (Mashiach)) is the savior and liberator figure in Jewish eschatology, whose role is to restore Judaism by enabling the Jewish people to observe all 613 commandments through building the Temple in Jerusalem and then gathering the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. The concept of messianism originated in Judaism.[1] -- Messiah in Judaism - Wikipedia

    Please go to this link as you'll see further elaborations on the issue of "savior".
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus will gather the Jewish people to the land of Israel during his second coming that is still yet to come. Does the Old Testament truly predict a second advent of the Messiah? | GotQuestions.org

     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. It was a typo. I accidentally deleted Israel will be regathered when Jesus returns. I was talking about the second coming is when Jesus will gather the Jewish people to the land of Israel.
     
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