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Featured How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 29, 2020.

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  1. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    ...you're joking....right?

    Any of them.

    ...turning...back...from...sin...

    Did your school skip reading comprehension or something? What's with this post?!?
     
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  2. ayin

    ayin Member

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  3. ayin

    ayin Member

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    Is it all just a coincidence? Jesus is everywhere in the Tanakh.
     
  4. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    @Harel13 teaching English is only one of the challenges. It seems that the system that used the meanings of the names of the letters, is now relying on the shape of the letter. Tav doesn't mean "cross". It means "sign" or "mark.

    So T-V-R-H must mean "the sign of a hook on your head, behold" which, as we all know, is a reference to this lady. She's EVERYWHERE!
     
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  5. Rival

    Rival Inodj har-ek Horu
    Staff Member Premium Member

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    Should've gone to Specsavers.
     
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  6. ayin

    ayin Member

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    Tav means sign, but the image of the letter is a cross. So the sign is the cross. Yes, "Hook" is also one of the meanings of the letter Vav next to "nail", but the image of the letter is a nail. The image of the letter Resh is a head, but it means "highest". It is interesting that the image of the third letter of the alphabet(Gimal) is a foot, which means "lowest" and the third last letter(Resh) has the image of a head, which means "highest".
    So we have Tav(sign=cross), Vav(nail), Resh(head=highest) and Hey(behold). Now we need to combine these correctly, which would be,
    "Behold the highest is nailed on the cross."
     
  7. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    So you are comfortable picking and choosing and mixing and matching meanings and images. For tav, the image matters to you. For Vav, you choose one meaning even though the image is of something else (and then you present the picture and interpret it the way you want... http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14651-vav disagrees with you). The reish means one thing, but you decide is means something else (and connect it to a letter that refers to a camel, not a foot). You are all over the place, trying to make what you need to find. Sad.
     
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  8. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Bible says that Jesus died on a cross, not on a stake. The historian Irenaeus supports this. https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses/did-jesus-die-on-a-stake-or-a-cross/

     
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  9. ayin

    ayin Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  10. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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  11. PruePhillip

    PruePhillip Well-Known Member

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    The context of Job was his suffering. In the midst of this he has a revelation of his
    Redeemer the one who who is alive now but one day will appear on the earth.
    Some of those who suffered had similar revelations of the Redeemer, including
    David. Interestingly King Solomon wrote of no revelation - he was a wise man,
    but his life of luxury might have precluded him from such insight.
    Zechariah spoke of the Jewish kingly Messiah coming, and the Jews mourning
    when they recognize this man as the lowly man they pierced.

    This is the context.
     
  12. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    That's nice. i can find other pictures which list other things.

    This one has camel for gimel
    This one understands the letters in the 4 letter name (which overlap Torah) differently

    when you start with your conclusion, you can twist all sorts of ways to get there.
     
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  13. ayin

    ayin Member

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    John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said to them: Destroy this house, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this house built, and thou wilt set it up in three days? But he spoke of the house of his body.

    John 10:17-18 Therefore the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I take it from myself. I have power to let it go, and I have power to take it back. I have received this commandment from my Father.

    He died by his own hand, by his authority.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    controlling the head of an ox (others say "clan") has teeth that mark your hand

    this is an old fashioned way of saying "if you mess with the bull, you get the horns"

    ancient wisdom from the Torah!
     
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  15. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    Let me make it a bit clearer.

    Isaiah 59:20. 'He shall come as redeemer to Zion,
    To those in Jacob who turn back from sin
    - declares the LORD.'

    So, even to a simpleton like me, this passage is clear enough. There will be some in the nation, Jacob, who will turn back from sin, and others who will not.

    Now, let's add another scripture. This time from Jeremiah 31:33,34.
    'But such is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after these days - declares the LORD: I will put My Teaching into their inmost being and inscribe it upon their hearts. Then I will be their God, and they will be my people. No longer will they need to teach one another and say to one another, "Heed the LORD"; for all of them, from the least of them to the greatest, shall heed Me - declares the LORD.
    For I will forgive their iniquities,
    And remember their sins no more.'

    Jeremiah tells us that all Israel will be saved.

    Now, a little application of logic. If all Israel is saved, but all Jacob is not saved, can the two names refer to all the same people? My thinking says that the two are different.

    Can we agree on this distinction?
     
    #855 Redemptionsong, Jan 3, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  16. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    There is nothing, absolutely nothing, to suggest in any way in the scriptures that there are three persons, each of the three persons God, equal to the others. Nothing. That you say they (all three) are equal really really makes no sense whatsoever. By or through can mean the same thing. Jesus did not change his personality as he was in subjection to his Father. He was always in subjection and always will be.
     
  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Jesus being in subjection to the Father doesn't mean that their essence was different.
     
  18. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    "... the Blessed God shall come down teaching; His death shall bring ... "

    God can die? That's an odd definition of a God.

    I rate this: Not super convincing. But nice try :)
     
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  19. greenvalley

    greenvalley New Member
    It's My Birthday!

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    the bible from genesis to revelation points toward jesus christ as the messiah. in genesis 3:15 Jehovah God says "i will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel." the question: who was Jehovah God talking to? do you know the meaning of this verse?
     
  20. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue We know gravity by happenstance. (Newton)

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    They aren't God either.
     
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