No. It agrees with the view that some prophecies haven't been fulfilled yet. Namely the messianic ones. The Messiah needs to fulfill them all the first time or he's not the Messiah.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?
- Thread starter ayin
- Start date
-
- Tags
- jesusisyhwh
The Tanakh mentions the Messiah coming before the destruction of the second temple. Since the Messiah had to come almost two thousand years ago, according to the testimony of the Jewish scriptures, then if Yeshua isn't the Messiah, there will never be a Messiah. It's too late for anyone else. It's him or no one. If Yeshua didn't come and do what had to be done in the first phase of things, when there was a definite deadline, then there's no hope that the second phase will ever come, when he will come in the clouds of glory to rule and reign.
It's actually the opposite: The Mashiach is meant to start the building of the Third Temple.
... and if you feed it, you get what you enable.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
It never ceases to amaze me that Christians will still insist the Jews got their own religion wrong. That when a Jew says "this is what our religion says," Christians who know very little about Judaism will insist "but, but, but."
It would kind of be like an American insisting someone who is English is doing being English wrong.
It would kind of be like an American insisting someone who is English is doing being English wrong.
It may well be that someone closer to Judaism than I am could answer this better, but 'messiah' means 'anointed one' (which translates into Greek as Χριστός and thence into English as 'Christ').
The anointing is done by the High Priest of the Jewish faith, in recognition of the subject's eminence as a civil, military or religious leader of the Jews. (It can also be used as an honorific for a distinguished Other.)
Jesus ticks none of those boxes.
The Christian use of the word, in other words, is only self-serving misappropriation. Given an historical Jesus, no Jew in Jesus' day had any reason to think Jesus was a person anointed in the Jewish sense. Indeed, it may be that the scene in John 3 where Judas upbraids Mary M for using the expensive perfume on Jesus may be as close as we get to any anointing of Jesus at all ─ and as far as I recall, nor Paul nor the synoptics mention such an event.
Last edited:
In the first century, the belief was how can you be a gentile and believe in Jesus, not how could you be Jewish and believe in Jesus. Christianity was a Jewish sect-it's not a distinct faith-both are covenants that come from the same God.
I have a question about this:
Does this mean Jewish folks believe the Messiah would abolish the current democratic Israeli government to establish a monarchy? Or I suppose, abolish all democracies?
Tumah
Veteran Member
The real question is, how could it be possible for Jews to not reject him. The only reasonable explanation that I could come up with, is that the early Jews who followed Jesus were ignorant laymen or had an agenda.
The New Covenant writings consistently emphasize the importance of repentance as well. They don't teach that Jesus died and therefore you're automatically forgiven. Jesus said, 'Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.' He said, 'I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. In Mark 6, he ends out the Twelve-and what do they preach? That people should repent.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I'm sure that would have been an interesting answer had you been responding to a post asking what the Christian Testament teaches about repentance...
The Jews believed Jesus because he preached repentance, like Ezekiel taught. Ezekiel 33:11 - Bible Gateway
To be fair, if a bloke comes to you claiming his biological mother is a virgin and you accept it then you're clearly well on your way to believing anything at that point
Tumah
Veteran Member
So you agree that they were simply ignorant. I mean, you probably wouldn't believe that I was anything simply because I told you to repentant, right? So you also believe that we're talking about a bunch of ignorant people who didn't really know what the Tanach taught, and were captivated by some random preaching for repentance.
There is other Old Testament parallels to Jesus. Psalm 22 is what Jesus read when he was crucified. Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 22 - King James Version
The psalm is written by David in the first person. Many events in David's life were repeated in the life of the Messiah, since David was in many ways the prototype of the Messiah. In fact, a famous rabbinic midrash, or commentary, that was written some twelve hundred years ago, makes the point that David was speaking of the Messiah's sufferings.
Just a couple of questions about these identifiers....
To answer #4, with the genealogy records / Jerusalem destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E., are there other official genealogy records elsewhere? Is there any Jewish person here who can trace which tribe they are from? I mean, the genealogy of the Messiah (to be from the tribe of Judah), should be established beyond doubt, right? Is that now possible?
For #5, where in Scripture does it say the Messiah would have children? And live long?
And with regard to #6, are you referring to Isaiah 2:2-4 & Micah 4:1-4? If so...
Do you think that this coming to have ‘knowledge of the True G-d’ will be the catalyst that will lead “many peoples” to
“beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks”?
In your opinion, when will “Nation....not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore”?
I hope I don’t come across as disrespectful, I’m really interested in your understanding. Or any Jewish person’s.
I agree that any accurate religion will lead to & teach people about the Most High, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel (Psalms 83:18; Malachi 3:16). No other God, trinitarian or otherwise.
So, to answer #1, the country of Israel will become a monarchy, establishing a king?
To answer #4, with the genealogy records / Jerusalem destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E., are there other official genealogy records elsewhere? Is there any Jewish person here who can trace which tribe they are from? I mean, the genealogy of the Messiah (to be from the tribe of Judah), should be established beyond doubt, right? Is that now possible?
For #5, where in Scripture does it say the Messiah would have children? And live long?
And with regard to #6, are you referring to Isaiah 2:2-4 & Micah 4:1-4? If so...
Do you think that this coming to have ‘knowledge of the True G-d’ will be the catalyst that will lead “many peoples” to
“beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks”?
In your opinion, when will “Nation....not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore”?
I hope I don’t come across as disrespectful, I’m really interested in your understanding. Or any Jewish person’s.
I agree that any accurate religion will lead to & teach people about the Most High, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel (Psalms 83:18; Malachi 3:16). No other God, trinitarian or otherwise.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Of course, that's assuming that the Christian Testament's narrative is even remotely factual.
But also, when you consider the vagueness of the suffering described in the Psalm, it's very easy to say that there were many Jewish people who's lives paralleled Psalm 22. In fact, just look at the Holocaust for a most recent example.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Many of the verses in the New Testament show that they were written to try to make it look as if Jesus fulfilled some vague OT prophecies. This was probably done because the authors knew that he did not fulfill the traditional messianic prophecies. For example the two failed nativity stories.
Tumah
Veteran Member
It doesn't have to be a monarchy although I think that's the most likely. But it could just as well be a Prime Minister or other such national leader.
It's currently not possible, however, the Messiah isn't chosen because of his lineage. There could and probably are many people today carrying the right lineage. But if his lineage isn't the right one, then that would disqualify him. Again, not something we know about most people today.
In Gen. 1:28. Since there's a commandment to have children and the Messiah is righteous, he would not absolve himself from this commandment.
Of course, it's possible that the Messiah would be impotent or his wife barren. But Isa. 35:5-6 describes the Messianic Age as a time when the ill and lame would be made whole again, so even if either of them were, they'd be healed.
Isa. 42:4. It doesn't say he'll live long, but that he won't die until he accomplishes G-d's goals. It's possible that they'll all miraculously occur in a short period of time, but if naturally, they would take some time.
This is not implied.
When the Messiah is the leader of all the nations. There won't be any reason to wage war anymore, because the Messiah will judge any case that would have ultimately lead to war between nations. This is described in Isa. 2:4.