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Featured How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by ayin, Dec 29, 2020.

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  1. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    So, how about this. You and the Mormons argue it out and I would be willing to sit down with the winner over Zoom and discuss what the Hebrew text of the Tanakh says.
     
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  2. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I had a feeling like you would not want to go through the text in Hebrew from start to finish. To answer your question, as I have said before, it is the Hebrew text only and no translations. So yes, I don't accept interlinears because they are translations.

    Thus, add this to the list of why Jews don't accept Christian claims about Jesus or the NT.
     
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  3. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    I believe the King James Version is best, and it's the only version I know that is available for free in print. I believe the Torah and Greek New Testament are much better.

    But I believe it has been modified. It talks about it in the Book of Mormon. Things were intentionally changed to create stumbling blocks.
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    What makes Christian translations less accurate? You could say that anyone is biased.
     
  5. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Theological bias, ignorance of cultural and historical context, replacement theology.

    Yes, you could say anyone is biased, but when it comes to truth about untestable spiritual entities, you cannot claim empirical truth.
     
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  6. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Some people don't agree witht he NIV because of the Greek translations. The New International Version Exposed!
     
  7. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    You could say that anyone has a theological bias. Messianic Jews don't believe in replacement theology.

    That you cannot claim empirical truth means that Jesus could be the Messiah.
     
  8. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    You can ask that about every time the prophet anthropomorphizes a place. Like in the previous passage where Zion is anthropomorphized instead of just saying Israel.
     
  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    I think one of the reasons Jews don't accept Christian claims about Jesus and the New Testament is because Jewish people who follow Jesus are ostracized from their family and community. And another reason, unfortunately, is the barrier put up by anti-Semetism in the past. I think Christians are generally oblivious to the history of anti-Semetism and Christianity. They often are-for good reason: they haven't seen it, and it isn't in their hearts. With almost no exception, the Christians I've met have a special attachment to Jewish people and Israel. So the history of anti-Semetism is very much unknown for that positive reason-but there's also a bad reason. Many Christians today, especially evangelicals, don't have a sense of history. They'll quote Martin Luther left and right, but they won't talk about the horrific things he wrote that Adolph Hitler adopted, like his 1543 tractate Concerning the Jews and Their Lies, where he recommended, among other things, that synagogues be burned, Jewish homes destroyed, and rabbis forbidden to teach under threat of death. They'll quote the powerful preaching of John Chrysostom a thousand years before Luther, but they won't mention his seven sermon against the Jews, where he said, 'I hate the Jews,' called them possessed by the devil,' and said that the Jewish religion is 'a disease.'
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Bethlehem being referred to as Zion is not self contradictory. What is Zion? What is Mount Zion? What is the biblical meaning of Zion? | GotQuestions.org

     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think Isaiah 53 wasn't read in synagogues in the past?

     
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  13. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Because something cannot be disproved is no evidence of truth. Prove that Thor is not the god of thunder, EMPIRCALLY.
     
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  14. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The original translation of the Bible didn't have any more of a theological bias than the beliefs of the Jewish people has a theological basis. The pre NIV BIble refers to Jesus as God. The New International Version Exposed!

     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Bethlehem is part of anthropomorphized Zion even though today it is part of Palestine.
     
  17. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I wish you a speedy recovery.
     
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  18. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Last chance... there are deep parallelisms to the Bible to get you thinking.
     
  19. Redemptionsong

    Redemptionsong Well-Known Member

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    You accept, I believe, that king David was a 'type' of Christ, or Messiah. Isn't this why the prophet Ezekiel is able to say, 'David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall have one shepherd' [Ezekiel 37:24]?

    David, whom you accept as being of the root of Jesse, was, like his father, born in Bethlehem. Why, then, do you think that your future Messiah will be born elsewhere?

    It all seems very odd to me that you expect a Messiah to come from the line of David, yet you reject the prophecies, and precise details, that tell you who to expect. Instead, you say that you'll know him by the peace he brings to earth.

    Does this mean that your Messiah will come to Israel and automatically be recognised as the Redeemer? Does he combine a religious and political role? And are you satisfied that the Messiah will recognise you as a friend?
     
  20. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    If you remember, I said that ALL translations are unacceptable even Jewish ones. We don't use translations as authoratitive. Jewish translation in English only exist where Torah learning was/is not so strong. Yet, most Jews know the translation does not overtake the original. So, what makes the Christian translation less accurate. 1st, the fact that it is is claimed to be a translation and 2nd the fact that it was made by people who did not/do not hold by Torath Mosheh.

    You are right everyone could be biased. Thus, we Jews have a requirement, from Hashem, to always go for what was given at Mount Sinai and to go through the Jewiish transmission process - both of these are found in Hebrew.
     
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