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How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
. . . because the line of belief between Judaism and Christianity is specific and clear, and based on sharply contrasting beliefs and interpretation of the Tanakh and the New Testament.

Judaism is not defined by the rejection of Jesus as Messiah it's defined by following Old Testament traditions and festivals. The concept of Judaism that we have today-rabbinic teachings about the Messiah-didn't exist in the Bible. Rabbinic Judaism comes from the Pharisees.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Judaism is not defined by the rejection of Jesus as Messiah it's defined by following Old Testament traditions and festivals. The concept of Judaism that we have today-rabbinic teachings about the Messiah-didn't exist in the Bible. Rabbinic Judaism comes from the Pharisees.

. . . and in Christianity the Culture is Western languages (particularly Greek and Latin), holidays, dominance of Anglo-Saxon Roman culture, and the interpretation of a Western OT and NT.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Judaism is not defined by the rejection of Jesus as Messiah it's defined by following Old Testament traditions and festivals. The concept of Judaism that we have today-rabbinic teachings about the Messiah-didn't exist in the Bible. Rabbinic Judaism comes from the Pharisees.
Everything the Messiah is meant to do can be found in Tanakh. I've posted the list on RF at least 4 times now with sources. These are the reasons why Jesus wasn't and will never be accepted, but whenever we give the list many Christians just want to reinterpret or say 'he'll do it next time', which is nonsense.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
. . . and in Christianity the Culture is Western languages (particularly Greek and Latin), holidays, dominance of Anglo-Saxon Roman culture, and the interpretation of a Western OT and NT.

How do different cultures result in wrong interpretations of the Old Testament?
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Everything the Messiah is meant to do can be found in Tanakh. I've posted the list on RF at least 4 times now with sources. These are the reasons why Jesus wasn't and will never be accepted, but whenever we give the list many Christians just want to reinterpret or say 'he'll do it next time', which is nonsense.

Judaism isn't defined by a rejection of Jesus as the Messiah-Abraham was Jewish and the gospel was preached to Abraham.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
How do different cultures result in wrong interpretations of the Old Testament?

It is a fact in all the religions of the world the belief in God or Gods are described and named fro the perspective of their culture.

Different languages, culture, concepts of God. In the West the anthropomorphic Gods are the rule. In fact the Trinity is a Western interpretation of polytheism, and not a Hebrew Tanakh belief in God.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Abraham preached a Hebrew belief in God.

Abraham was a Jew. He didn't use the term Christian because he looked forward to the coming of the Messiah in the context of a Jewish expression of that faith. Messianic Judaism and Christianity are the same faith with different forms of expression. I wouldn't argue if somebody used the term Christian to refer to the Old Testament saints, or didn't. Linguistics are a non issue.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Are you saying that the Old Testament believers didn't use the term Judaism for their beliefs?
No.

I'm saying that the Jewish concepts of Messiah that you are saying are made up by Rabbis are in the Tanakh.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
It is a fact in all the religions of the world the belief in God or Gods are described and named fro the perspective of their culture.

Different languages, culture, concepts of God. In the West the anthropomorphic Gods are the rule. In fact the Trinity is a Western interpretation of polytheism, and not a Hebrew Tanakh belief in God.

The Trinity is mentioned in the first book of the Bible. Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Numbers 23 and 1 Samuel 15 say God is not a man. God is invisible and cannot be seen, and yet He's seen at different times. The elders of Israel-74 people, see the God of Israel on Mount Sinai, in Exodus the 24th chapter. How is it that God is unseen and yet seen? It's through his Son. He's complex in His unity. The memra is a reference to God being complex in His unity. MEMRA - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Biblical Data: In Scripture "the word of the Lord" commonly denotes the speech addressed to patriarch or prophet (Gen. xv. 1; Num. xii. 6, xxiii. 5; I Sam. iii. 21; Amos v. 1-8); but frequently it denotes also the creative word: "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made" (Ps. xxxiii. 6; comp. "For He spake, and it was done"; "He sendeth his word, and melteth them [the ice]"; "Fire and hail; snow, and vapors; stormy wind fulfilling his word"; Ps. xxxiii. 9, cxlvii. 18, cxlviii. 8). In this sense it is said, "For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven" (Ps. cxix. 89). "The Word," heard and announced by the prophet, often became, in the conception of the seer, an efficacious power apart from God, as was the angel or messenger of God: "The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel" (Isa. ix. 7 [A. V. 8], lv. 11); "He sent his word, and healed them" (Ps. cvii. 20); and comp. "his word runneth very swiftly" (Ps. cxlvii. 15).
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
No.

I'm saying that the Jewish concepts of Messiah that you are saying are made up by Rabbis are in the Tanakh.

The Tanakh never rejects the divinity of the Messiah or the Messiah's second coming-that just an interpretation that people have about the scriptures. THE MOSHIACH

The Jews are looking for a moshiach—a super hero so-to-speak; but not a divine Savior in any way. This super leader will be a great judge and a mighty warrior and will to lead their nation politically to victory, but he will be a mere man with no special powers from God...

The moshiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The moshiach is often referred to as "moshiach ben David" (moshiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

SOURCE: Judaism 101: Moshiach: The Messiah
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
i was responding to you saying

I'm saying that the Jewish concepts of Messiah that you are saying are made up by Rabbis are in the Tanakh.
Let me make this simple for you:

1. Jewish concepts of what the Messiah is and does are taken directly from the Tanakh.

2. Christian concepts are not taken from the Tanakh or are reinterpreted and twisted Tanakh verses, while still acknowledging the things the messiah is meant to do, per Tanakh, he hasn't done and he will come back and do again.

You seem to think that Judaism changed its concept of what the Messiah is meant to do because of some dispute with Christianity. It's the other way. They disputed Christianity because their Messiah didn't do what the Tanakh says he should.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Let me make this simple for you:

1. Jewish concepts of what the Messiah is and does are taken directly from the Tanakh.

2. Christian concepts are not taken from the Tanakh or are reinterpreted and twisted Tanakh verses, while still acknowledging the things the messiah is meant to do, per Tanakh, he hasn't done and he will come back and do again.

You seem to think that Judaism changed its concept of what the Messiah is meant to do because of some dispute with Christianity. It's the other way. They disputed Christianity because their Messiah didn't do what the Tanakh says he should.

The Old Testament saints didn't have the concept of the Messiah being a mere man.
 
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