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How are these Great Beings explained?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You have shown how the Understanding of men is not compatiable with Scripture, not that Scripture is incompatible with a Spiritual Resurrection.

I believe in Christ, He is my Lord and Saviour, Christ is Baha'u'llah returned as the Father.

They both are resurected and are at the Right of God just as seen in Acts 7:55

"But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,"

Regards Tony

No. Its saying:

Bahallauh physical existence to you

-is just as important-

As christ physical resurrection to christians

Tony: You both are right in your Own beliefs only. No one else's.

I do not believe sacred scripture. Thats like saying people in 75 BCE is more important than you. Time era makes no difference. We are all ordinary human beings.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No. Its saying:

Bahallauh physical existence to you

-is just as important-

As christ physical resurrection to christians

Tony: You both are right in your Own beliefs only. No one else's.

I do not believe sacred scripture. Thats like saying people in 75 BCE is more important than you. Time era makes no difference. We are all ordinary human beings.

The Great Beings are our existance Carlita. We are of no importance. If they were not Given by God, we do not exist, they are the Primal Force given for Creation, the Universal Attractive Force that holds all creation in balance.

That needs neither you, me, or anyone else to say it in Faith.

It is either a scientifically proven truth, yet fully to be confirmed, or not.

Personally it is confirmed for me.

"I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things. I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the Light of God Whose radiance can never fade." (Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb)

Regards Tony
 
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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The Great Beings are our existance Carlita. We are of no importance. If they were not Given by God, we do not exist, they are the Primal Force given for Creation, the Universal Attractive Force that holds all creation in balance.

Your belief is just as important, fact, and true just as a christian and the resurection.

That needs neither you, me, or anyone else to say it in Faith.

It is either a Scientifically proven truth, yet fully to be confirmed, or not.

Its not. Why should it be? Do you feel its fake if you find no scientific evidence for what you said isnt physical to begin with?

Personally it is confirmed for me.

"I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things. I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the Light of God Whose radiance can never fade." (Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb)

Thats not outside confirmation. Not everyone needs evidence to confirm their belief.

It's not a fact. Beliefs are personal not universal.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
"Dost thou reckon thyself only a puny form
When within thee the universe is folded?"

Regards Tony

Huh? Have no clue what you said.

Physical resurrection is a fact and literal as bahaullah is to you

EDIT

I am not asking rethorical questions. If you do not want to answer and clarify, do not bring up the topic. I am not bahai.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
No. Its saying:

Bahallauh physical existence to you

-is just as important-

As christ physical resurrection to christians

Tony: You both are right in your Own beliefs only. No one else's.

I do not believe sacred scripture. Thats like saying people in 75 BCE is more important than you. Time era makes no difference. We are all ordinary human beings.
Thank you for your comments regarding the resurrection of Jesus. As far as I can tell all the major Christian denominations believe God raised Jesus from being dead. The New Testament gospels build up to the resurrection. It is the climax of gospels.

If it didn't happen, then all those Christians are wrong and have been wrong from the beginning. But not only them, the gospel writers are wrong also. I don't see how if the resurrection was only "symbolic", that the writers would have written the story of Jesus the way they did. It seems to me as though they truly believed Jesus was dead and came back to life.

I understand why people don't believe it, but that is what early Christians believed and taught. Never did they say that Jesus didn't rise physically from the dead. Which means that if the Baha'is are correct, Christians have been wrong from the beginning.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Thank you for your comments regarding the resurrection of Jesus. As far as I can tell all the major Christian denominations believe God raised Jesus from being dead. The New Testament gospels build up to the resurrection. It is the climax of gospels.

If it didn't happen, then all those Christians are wrong and have been wrong from the beginning. But not only them, the gospel writers are wrong also. I don't see how if the resurrection was only "symbolic", that the writers would have written the story of Jesus the way they did. It seems to me as though they truly believed Jesus was dead and came back to life.

I understand why people don't believe it, but that is what early Christians believed and taught. Never did they say that Jesus didn't rise physically from the dead. Which means that if the Baha'is are correct, Christians have been wrong from the beginning.

Basically. Can you imagine ten or twenty years from now young people wont know what a payphone is. We didnt know we could touch the moon not too long ago. I cant imagine what people will believe a thousand years from now. All in perspective.

In my personal opinion, what makes god nonexistent isnt because of lack of evidence: god works through people, but timeline and history shows history isnt seperated from us. Why would someone be a great being then but not now. If people can solve the gap that would explain a lot. Symbolizing it doesnt work.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
No. Its saying:

Bahallauh physical existence to you

-is just as important-

As christ physical resurrection to christians

Tony: You both are right in your Own beliefs only. No one else's.

I do not believe sacred scripture. Thats like saying people in 75 BCE is more important than you. Time era makes no difference. We are all ordinary human beings.
Thank you for your comments regarding the resurrection of Jesus. As far as I can tell all the major Christian denominations believe God raised Jesus from being dead. The New Testament gospels build up to the resurrection. It is the climax of gospels.

If it didn't happen, then all those Christians are wrong and have been wrong from the beginning. But not only them, the gospel writers are wrong also. I don't see how if the resurrection was only "symbolic", that the writers would have written the story of Jesus the way they did. It seems to me as though they truly believed Jesus was dead and came back to life.

From a Baha'i point of view, which is also consistent with Biblical teachings, only the Religion of the true Messiah can last.
Look at all those who claimed to be Messiah before and after Christ. None of them lasted. Only the religion of Jesus last, despite Jesus was crucified. This is the meaning of Resurrection of Christ, that, His Religion rose after He was crucified, and if Christ was not raised after His death, the Christian belief was false. But since He rose after death, His religion was true. So, if we understand the principle teachings of Bible, and we believe in it, we should not have problem to accept the spiritual meaning of resurrection. This Resurrection is more important, and is the real resurrection, not a physical resurrection. The Bible gives so much importance to Spirituality, instead of worldly things. It gives importance to Spiritual body, than natural body. Then it also tests us. If we understood the fundamental teaching of Bible, we realize that, the Resurrection of Christ must be interpreted spiritually. Then we recognize the Resurrection story was meant to be a test to separate those who believe in spirituality, and those who give importance to natural and worldly. But if we think, that if Jesus was not physically resurrected, then it is all lies, and Jesus was not real Messiah, and Son of God, then it means, we are giving importance to the natural body. In that case We would be a worldly person, and If we believe that Jesus rose Spiritually, meaning, His Religion rose, then this understanding is compatible with teachings of Bible. In another words, there are people who can accept Jesus to be the Messiah, if He physically rose. But the Baha'i view is, He was the Son, and the Messiah, while He did not physically rose, because, what matters is, Jesus rose spiritually, and that is the divine proof!
Strange, strange, strange, the Catholic Church can trace it's existence all the way back to the beginning. So they lasted. How many Catholic beliefs do Baha'is say aren't true? Probably several, including one big one, the resurrection.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
We were talking about physical resurrection. Question is If having a physical body is important, why God the Father does not have one for himself?
When God wants to speak to humanity, He must manifest a Person among people in a physical form to speak to us. For example He manifested Moses, or Jesus. But when His mission is finished, and He dies, why would it be important to be resurrected physically to live in Heaven?
Such a thing contradicts Bible:


Even as Jesus said: “Ye must be born again.” Again He saith: “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

Obviously according to these verses, God gives more importance to Spirituality, does not He?
Somebody got mixed up. Did the writers of the gospels know that Jesus was dead and hadn't come back to life? Or, did they think, mistakenly, that he had and wrote about it in the gospels?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The Great Beings are our existance Carlita. We are of no importance. If they were not Given by God, we do not exist, they are the Primal Force given for Creation, the Universal Attractive Force that holds all creation in balance.

That needs neither you, me, or anyone else to say it in Faith.

It is either a scientifically proven truth, yet fully to be confirmed, or not.

Personally it is confirmed for me.

"I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things. I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the Light of God Whose radiance can never fade." (Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb)

Regards Tony
Can God physically heal people? If yes, did Jesus heal people? If yes, a couple of the healings were of people that had died, can God through Jesus bring a dead person back to life?
 

arthra

Baha'i
There are some interesting passages in the Baha'i Writings about resurrection. It's true Baha'is do not believe in the literal physical resurrection but that the resurrection of Jesus was spiritual:

Bahá'ís do not believe in a Bodily Resurrection after the Crucifixion

"...We do not believe that there was a bodily resurrection after the Crucifixion of Christ, but that there was a time after His Ascension when His disciples perceived spiritually His true greatness and realize He was eternal in being. This is what has been reported symbolically in the New Testament and has been misunderstood. His eating with His disciples after resurrection is the same thing."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 9, 1947)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 491)

Now in my view something happened when the story was translated from verbal Aramaic to Koine Greek.. making elements of story more literal.

In the Persian Bayan as revealed by the Bab there's also another view of the resurrection which I'll post here:

"Thus, for example, from the day on which Jesus was sent (by God) until the day of his Ascension was the Resurrection of Moses, for the revelation of God was manifest during that period through the revelation of that Reality, who rewarded by his words everyone who was a believer in Moses and punished by his words everyone who did not believe in him. For whatsoever God had witnessed in that age (of Moses) is what He witnessed in the Gospel. And from the day on which the Messenger of God (Muhammad) was sent until the day of his death ('uruj-i an) was the Resurrection of Jesus, for the Tree of Reality was manifest in the (human) temple of Muhammad, who rewarded all who believed in Jesus and punished by his words all who did not believe in him.

"Similarly, from the time of the appearance of the Tree of the Bayan until its disappearance in the Resurrection of the Messenger of God, which was promised by God in the Qur'án. For it began when two hours and eleven minutes had passed on the night of the fifth of Jumada I of the year one thousand two hundred and sixty (1260), which is the year one thousand two hundred and seventy from the beginning of (Muhammad's) mission. This was the beginning of the resurrection of the Qur'án, and it will last until the disappearance of the Tree of Reality, [p.31] for, until a thing has attained the stage of perfection, it cannot be resurrected. The perfection of the religion of Islam took until the beginning of the revelation, and from then until the time of disappearance the fruits of the tree of Islam will be manifested, whatever they may be.

"The Resurrection of the Bayan will take place on the appearance of him whom God shall manifest, for today the Bayan is in a state of seed, but at the beginning of the revelation of him whom God shall manifest, the Bayan will be in the final stage of perfection...."

 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Basically. Can you imagine ten or twenty years from now young people wont know what a payphone is. We didnt know we could touch the moon not too long ago. I cant imagine what people will believe a thousand years from now. All in perspective.

In my personal opinion, what makes god nonexistent isnt because of lack of evidence: god works through people, but timeline and history shows history isnt seperated from us. Why would someone be a great being then but not now. If people can solve the gap that would explain a lot. Symbolizing it doesnt work.
Any new religion has to give reasons why the previous religions don't work anymore. Christianity gave reasons why they no longer have to follow the Law. Now Baha'is give their reasons why Christianity is no longer relevant. Plus, how many of the Christian beliefs are misinterpretations. But they do it in a very nice way, because they also teach that all religions are one and all from God and all true.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
There are some interesting passages in the Baha'i Writings about resurrection. It's true Baha'is do not believe in the literal physical resurrection but that the resurrection of Jesus was spiritual:

Bahá'ís do not believe in a Bodily Resurrection after the Crucifixion

"...We do not believe that there was a bodily resurrection after the Crucifixion of Christ, but that there was a time after His Ascension when His disciples perceived spiritually His true greatness and realize He was eternal in being. This is what has been reported symbolically in the New Testament and has been misunderstood. His eating with His disciples after resurrection is the same thing."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 9, 1947)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 491)

Now in my view something happened when the story was translated from verbal Aramaic to Koine Greek.. making elements of story more literal.

In the Persian Bayan as revealed by the Bab there's also another view of the resurrection which I'll post here:

"Thus, for example, from the day on which Jesus was sent (by God) until the day of his Ascension was the Resurrection of Moses, for the revelation of God was manifest during that period through the revelation of that Reality, who rewarded by his words everyone who was a believer in Moses and punished by his words everyone who did not believe in him. For whatsoever God had witnessed in that age (of Moses) is what He witnessed in the Gospel. And from the day on which the Messenger of God (Muhammad) was sent until the day of his death ('uruj-i an) was the Resurrection of Jesus, for the Tree of Reality was manifest in the (human) temple of Muhammad, who rewarded all who believed in Jesus and punished by his words all who did not believe in him.

"Similarly, from the time of the appearance of the Tree of the Bayan until its disappearance in the Resurrection of the Messenger of God, which was promised by God in the Qur'án. For it began when two hours and eleven minutes had passed on the night of the fifth of Jumada I of the year one thousand two hundred and sixty (1260), which is the year one thousand two hundred and seventy from the beginning of (Muhammad's) mission. This was the beginning of the resurrection of the Qur'án, and it will last until the disappearance of the Tree of Reality, [p.31] for, until a thing has attained the stage of perfection, it cannot be resurrected. The perfection of the religion of Islam took until the beginning of the revelation, and from then until the time of disappearance the fruits of the tree of Islam will be manifested, whatever they may be.

"The Resurrection of the Bayan will take place on the appearance of him whom God shall manifest, for today the Bayan is in a state of seed, but at the beginning of the revelation of him whom God shall manifest, the Bayan will be in the final stage of perfection...."
Why didn't the gospel writers say that? Instead of making up a false resurrection story, that made it sound like Jesus had come back to life? That's the thing... Were the writers deceived, or were they part of the deception?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
That is why bahai and christianity are not the same.

Physical ressurection to a christian is just as literal and important as bahalluah to you.

Hi Carlita. We Baha’is accept that that’s the way they believe. We accept that is their interpretation of the Bible.

All we are saying is that love comes first. Imagine if the world put aside our theological differences and focused only on loving one another we could all be reconciled in our love for humanity and unite.

We can agree to disagree and still be united as one human family. That’s unity in diversity.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hi Carlita. We Baha’is accept that that’s the way they believe. We accept that is their interpretation of the Bible.

All we are saying is that love comes first. Imagine if the world put aside our theological differences and focused only on loving one another we could all be reconciled in our love for humanity and unite.

We can agree to disagree and still be united as one human family. That’s unity in diversity.

Do you understand why they are equally important?

Can you have love or know it without bahaullah and the prophets? If its just love, no one needs to be christian and bahai.

It goes beyond love.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Do you understand why they are equally important?

Can you have love or know it without bahaullah and the prophets? If its just love, no one needs to be christian and bahai.

It goes beyond love.

What is more important love for each other or winning an argument? The bloodshed over theological disputes have not been worth what they stood for and the division and hatred they caused even to this day.

We can all have our different beliefs but if they’re true religion they will lead to unity and peace not wars, strife and prejudices.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Somebody got mixed up. Did the writers of the gospels know that Jesus was dead and hadn't come back to life? Or, did they think, mistakenly, that he had and wrote about it in the gospels?
I think we went through that before.
What is important is, if we look at the Book, we must look at its entire and whole, not only some parts of it. We know that, in some other passages of Bible, it is written that the Book of God is sealed until the time of End, which is the time of Manifestation of the Promised One. When He comes, He will open the seals of the Book so its hidden meaning becomes known. That can be seen that, stories such as Resurrection, have a Figurative and hidden meaning, which according to Wisdom of God, it was supposed to be unsealed when the Promised One comes. What is the problem then? Is it hard to believe that God had sealed His own Book, thereby the inner meaning of the Resurrection was hidden? Is it hard to accept that He opened the seals of the Book later, and revealed its hidden meaning?

Moreover, many Christians agree that the story of disciples seeing Moses and Elijah talking with Jesus is not literal. They say Moses and Elijah were symbols of the Law and Prophets. When that story can be accepted by Christians to be symbolic, why not the Resurrection?
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
The Great Beings are our existance Carlita. We are of no importance. If they were not Given by God, we do not exist, they are the Primal Force given for Creation, the Universal Attractive Force that holds all creation in balance.

So who is the bigger dude, God or the 'Great Beings' !

We are of no importance.

Why such low self-esteem! Would this be conducive to spiritual growth !

"I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things. I am the Countenance of God Whose splendor can never be obscured, the Light of God Whose radiance can never fade." (Epistle to Muhammad Shah, Selections from the Writings of the Báb)

Regards Tony

The 'Primal Point ' part reminds me of the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, where God or Shiva is stated to be a primal point of light.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Strange, strange, strange, the Catholic Church can trace it's existence all the way back to the beginning. So they lasted. How many Catholic beliefs do Baha'is say aren't true? Probably several, including one big one, the resurrection.

The Religion of Christ is likened to a Firm Tree. The Catholic Church may be seen as a branch of the main Tree. The churches lasted because the Tree was firm. Other Messiahs did not last, because their tree was not firm. Their tree was not planted by the hand of God, thus it was removed and turned to nothing eventually.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
What is more important love for each other or winning an argument? The bloodshed over theological disputes have not been worth what they stood for and the division and hatred they caused even to this day.

We can all have our different beliefs but if they’re true religion they will lead to unity and peace not wars, strife and prejudices.

Do you understand why I say they are both equally important?
 
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