How are these Great Beings explained?

[TransmutingSoul]

Tony. Take out religion for now. I notice you keep telling me I will someday come to unity as if where I am now is not real peace. Right?

"Also". How do you converse about Anything with someone else, say sports, if you dont care about your friend's view of his team as opposed to yours?

Ha ha...I do not follow any sports now as they are all out of balance. The big Colosseum's of our age. The money is obscene.

Carlita, I can not take Faith out of the mix, no use putting it under the veil of another subject, we will stick to the point.

I have a Baha'i view of Faith which is all inclusive of all Faiths. I have an view on those Faiths that they all come from the same Source, we as Baha'is share that view. Some may agree and look further into that source. That is their Choice.

You have your Faith and your view of it, I am happy that you see the Buddha how you wish to.

Consider, in telling me to take Baha'i concepts out of my thoughts of what the Buddha said, is you requesting of me exactly what you say is not good in me.

I am Happy you give your view, why are you not happy of my view? Is it you saying I should only see it as you do?

Thus give a passage, state your feelings on what is said, I will look for the good in what you offer, agree or not agree. In return I can give my understanding and you can consider it agree or disagree. I can asure you I see many wonderful thoughts from Buddha that I also see in the Baha'i Writings, I see very little that I can not find a reconciliation on.

Thus to keep saying it is inappropriate for others to see the Buddha through their Heart and their view of Faith, is not my barrier to unity and why should it insult anybody? One who thinks they know a more accurate intent, are free to; and can give what they think the intent is. All can decide from that point on,what sounds more reasonable.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Take care, cousin.

You take care as well, I deeply admire the JW, their strength and organisation of Faith.

They are a great example.

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

What needs to be changed in the suttas?

I see no need to change them.

Nothing needs to be changed but we need some new laws and guidance for this age.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How can a false belief in the identity of a "Messiah" be anything less than a delusion?

God allows our Heart to follow our own choices, there is no bad in following a path, as it all leads us to the same Goal. If a person finds they have been mistaken, it is usually because there was to much self in the decision to start with. This is what I have found and no way impute this to others

The writings of all the Holy Books will tell you the journey does not finish when you find a source of Truth, the journey just begins in knowing our true selves. We will in this journey have many lows and highs in faith, but at all times we should be thankful for all what happens to us.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is a contradiction. How are you in unity with me?

I am not against you, I like your kind heart.

You dont care about what I say.

I like you strive to live the virtues in your life, all you offer in words to support this is admired by me.

You ignore me.

Sure you are not my wife Silence is better on many occasions, more than I have done in this thread to date as well.

You belittled my faith.

I have a different view of Your Faith, which to me exults it beyond a description I can give of its all embracing importance. The Whole world would be better with Buddhas teachings in their hearts.

Has that taken me of the list of belittler's?

and smile in my face.

I am always smiling, I am always asking people if they are Happy, sorry I am Me, is happy all the time too much? (There is always a minute or two of anger at the state of the world and its injustice)

My wife who has lived her life as a manic depressant has also questioned my smiling face, my avatar is me, I do not hide it from the world.

Take note, no more smiles for Carlita. (Is that better?)

Iconally and even hugged me many times without "asking" if I wanted you to hug me.

I offered, you did thank at one time... Now make another note, no more attempted Hugs with Carlita. ten 4

How do you embrace religions if you want the religious to submit to your own?

Who said anything about asking or wanting others to submit to be a Baha'i, that is clearly their choice and their choice only with their life.

How do I embrace religion, I embrace the knowledge it is from the One Source. I love all of Gods Religions, Buddha inclusive.

I speak to a Christian Pastor here, we speak in the same manner. He sees that the Love for Christ is unshakable, even if I do not drink His Wine or Eat His Bread at Church Services.

Stay well and Happy....no Smile or Hug...Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

A quote, if I remember it: When two philosophers come together, they debate. When two spiritual minded people come together, they smile.

You posted this advice earlier, you do not like me smiling at you. Note no smile, no hug

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Yes it will not go backwards.

....OK......

To be progressive is to Embrace God and His Laws for this age.

After reading about your God's Divine messages and guidance as written by your ordained Bab, I just don't think the World is ever going to accept your God or His Laws.

The future unfolds as per the direction given by God, we are blind to the Power unleashed.

Regards Tony

I read 'Mother Nature' for 'God' there, and then everything clicks into place.

 

[oldbadger]

Note no smile, no hug

Regards Tony

A hug? Hugs are goin' round?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I read 'Mother Nature' for 'God' there, and then everything clicks into place.

Well done,nature is most likely in this world, the greatest teacher.

Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

I think there is definitely a middle ground with religious leaders. All would have some truth to them, and all would have some poor ideas. Maybe Baha'u'llah was a fairly wise man with some good ideas mixed in with some poor ones. Same goes for Joseph Smith. Christ, Muhammed, anyone.

I guess I will never get this all or nothing sense of Abrahamic good/bad thinking. Not my paradigm. Take carpenters or doctors as an analogy ... some really good ones, highly skilled, could build the finest furniture, or fix a heart. Then there are those who couldn't hammer a single nail straight into a board, or a doctor who prescribes valium for the flu. Do you say those chaps are either carpenters, or doctors, or not?

For many Abrahamics there is no place for mediocrity in religion, medicine or building let alone something that is below par. For Jews, Christians, and Muslims they can all reasonably claim that their Teacher has been outstanding and they have history they can be proud of. No one wants to be duped into following a mediocre religious teacher.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well of course I didn't mean that you might have thought that about yourself and I agree it would be a grandiose thought to have. However, both Sun Myung Moon and Baha'u'llah both indicated that they were here to complete Christ's mission. So what you said is equally applicable to both of them:

Thats not very logical if you thik about. Its like saying we should reject Christ because other peope round that time made false Messianic claims.

The question is how could somebody be wrong about this? Is it simply a mistaken interpretation of scripture? Or is there a deeper psychological issue at play? How could such otherwise intelligent and high achieving individuals be so wildly wrong about their own identity? Surely you must agree that an honest appraisal of these religious leaders and the faiths they have initiated requires that we ask the question and answer it honestly?

Of course an honest apprasial is necessary and no one is stopping you from providing a psychiatric evaluation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah if that what you really want to do.

 

[Dawnofhope]

There you go, the living proof that Bahai is stuck back in the dark ages.

That's like saying the practice of virtues of honesty and courtesy are dark ages stuff because they are in older religions.

But you make a mistake, because since there is now no need for increasing population, Closed Gay Unions are fine, healthy, and with as much chance of happiness as Hetero-marriages.

There's no Baha'i agenda to go forth and multiply. Thats really is going a long way back. Genesis 9:7

My post covered the reasons why the Mosiac Law on Homosexuality could safely be repealed, you just didn't want to see it.

But why would anyone want to resurrect a theocracy that is 3 1/2 thousand years old?

Another change in the Bahai tenets, right there!
Engagements were only supposed to be very short, just long enough for the marriage arrangements. I seem to remember it was about three months, 50 years ago. The Bahai tenets are changing then, so why not wake up to modern day equality?

You're confusing taking the time to get to know each other with the length of an engagement.

That has not worked very well, then. And as if parents can choose for their children, or have any idea about their childrens adult desires. This is all dark ages stuff.

Who said anything about parents chosing for their children?

 

[Dawnofhope]

I never really cared for the elephant parable. America has been trying to make people "white" for ages. We only see people like us and disregard the minorities, for example. A lot of racism and religious prejudices because if one person doesn't believe the same as another, then they get belittle or dismissed. Even our laws favor those who are christian than those who are not. Christianity welcomes new convert with open arms hoping everyone would be christian some day.

I'd say the elephant just means we are in one world. I'm not on mars and you're not on the moon. The physical nature of the elephant is what we share because we are all in the same life. The issue is saying to the person touching the trunk and another the elephant's ear that their foundation is the same even though they are touching different parts of the body. It invalidates that an ear is different than a trunk therefore, the foundation of that person's belief is different. It's not superficial diversity but people actually believe what they are touching is reality itself. Once you connect them to make one elephant, you're speaking for and defining reality for the whole.

Since no one is "god" that would be, um, very disrespectful to do. Since Bahai is touching the tail thinking it's the whole elephant, they can believe this foundation is something else but other people don't have that one piece defines the whole view. They are satisfied with the parts of the elephant they touch.

It's kind hard to type this without sounding like a run-on sentence.

I am talking about the elephant as a whole and you are talking about the distinct parts that make up an elephant. In reality we need to consider both the parts and the whole elephant. That is the unity and diversity. We can't properly consider one without the other.

Did you consider the Buddhist part of the link I sent?

Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnofhope]

I'm glad you're agnostic on it. Momen wasn't. Not sure about Baha'u'llah and his descendants who led.

We don't believe this is a place to endure, as you put it. Hindus, for the most part, are taught to enjoy life. One of my Guru's oft quoted quote is 'Life is meant ob be lived joyously.' But I can see that if you feel this place is some wretched horrible place to be, then heaven would be quite appealing to the mind.

I'm happy with life. Who said anything about it being 'some wretched horrible place to be.' My point is why repeat it over and over and over again when we have the opportunity to get it right the first time?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Indeed, and that's my point - so far we seem to be ducking the issue here but the point is that if someone thinks they are the messiah when in fact they are not - and they persist in that belief - what is that? Is it mere "folly" or just a "mistake"? And what if such a person draws a million others after him? Its just an "error"? It really is not that important as long as we are not "rude" about it by calling it what it is - a delusion? How can a false belief in the identity of a "Messiah" be anything less than a delusion? And all the more so for the person who believes himself to be the Messiah - surely? This is not about "courtesy" - its about being honest in our search and in our questions.

Again, no one is duckng anything. I eagerly await your arguments proving that Baha'u'llah is 'deluded.'

 

[Vinayaka]

Guris blessings? Does the Guru give permission for the devotee to refer to the Guru as his spiritual teacher?

In the traditional sampradayas, the Guru accepting you as a student is a necessary step, yes. No Guru is obliged to take anyone on. They can easily refer you to another lineage, for example. But I only mention this because these days, with mass market Gurus or deceased ones, a lot of people will say they are followers of _________, but it's not the old tradition. The old way is smaller groups, and one on one relationships. After all, in reality, each person's needs are individual, and different from everyone else. Think tutorial.

 

[Vinayaka]

For many Abrahamics there is no place for mediocrity in religion, medicine or building let alone something that is below par. For Jews, Christians, and Muslims they can all reasonably claim that their Teacher has been outstanding and they have history they can be proud of. No one wants to be duped into following a mediocre religious teacher.

Yes that is the Abrahamic way. It's the 'either good or bad' overiding everything. Not the way I view it. But when you got your degree, were each of your professors the best there was, or, in retrospect, were there some that were mediocre, or at least less able to teach than others?

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm happy with life. Who said anything about it being 'some wretched horrible place to be.' My point is why repeat it over and over and over again when we have the opportunity to get it right the first time?

You used the word 'endure'.

Definition of ENDURE

For Hindus, it's not a question of having a choice. Yes, in some lifetime, when all karmas are resolved, we'll turn inward, renounce the world, and seek moksha. Of course religions that think otherwise are free to.

I see it like driving down a bumpy road. You can either buck up, and enjoy the bumps, or you can 'endure' it begrudgingly.

 

[Vinayaka]

I was just thinking we need guidance for our times that’s all because we seem to be struggling with a lot of problems nowadays that are global not individual.

And we have lots of guidance, from all over. How can you say we need guidance when we already have it? It's like saying, 'I'm hungry' just after you eat.

There are literally tons of great spiritual teachers alive on this planet today who offer wonderful guidance on how to behave, what to do to prevent war, individual strategies for maintaining raw emotions. It's not that we need guidance, it's that we need to listen to the guidance we get.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Ha ha...I do not follow any sports now as they are all out of balance. The big Colosseum's of our age. The money is obscene.

Carlita, I can not take Faith out of the mix, no use putting it under the veil of another subject, we will stick to the point.

I have a Baha'i view of Faith which is all inclusive of all Faiths. I have an view on those Faiths that they all come from the same Source, we as Baha'is share that view. Some may agree and look further into that source. That is their Choice.

You have your Faith and your view of it, I am happy that you see the Buddha how you wish to.

Consider, in telling me to take Baha'i concepts out of my thoughts of what the Buddha said, is you requesting of me exactly what you say is not good in me.

I am Happy you give your view, why are you not happy of my view? Is it you saying I should only see it as you do?

Thus give a passage, state your feelings on what is said, I will look for the good in what you offer, agree or not agree. In return I can give my understanding and you can consider it agree or disagree. I can asure you I see many wonderful thoughts from Buddha that I also see in the Baha'i Writings, I see very little that I can not find a reconciliation on.

Thus to keep saying it is inappropriate for others to see the Buddha through their Heart and their view of Faith, is not my barrier to unity and why should it insult anybody? One who thinks they know a more accurate intent, are free to; and can give what they think the intent is. All can decide from that point on,what sounds more reasonable.

Regards Tony

For example. I'll come back to this.

I dont believe god exists. Dont know what a god is. Dont know how jesus is divine. Its not my faith. I can sit and smile with catholics. Talk to baptist about praise the lord. Share experiences of gods blessings. Even to the extent of sharing the Same experiences from the eucharist. Adrian thought I was christian.

Its not that I was christian nor compromised my beliefs to relate. Its beyond that. Its called unconditional love and empathy for another.

If I kept saying The Buddha this and The Buddha that at bible study meeting at a local church I visited, instead of saying I follow devil teachings as a sermon when they found I was catholic, they'd probably throw me out the building.

It is easier to converse with you if you know where I come from.

You never answered why you think Im asing you to compromise your belief?

I cant remedy the miscommunication if you dont tell me the problem (method towards peace).