• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How are these Great Beings explained?

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I was 18 or 19.

We have been talking about making sense of our experiences. I'd be interested to hear more about your experience and what made you so certain it was Siva.

Making a mystic religion work for you, is easy when your soul sees it. But I feel the same amazement about Baha'i'. It has so many contradictions and fallacies. The ability to see through them is truly astonishing to me. But it demonstrates how rigid the natural mental processes can be.

Perhaps I am blind then?

What contradictions exist in my Faith that don't exist in your?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you believe that, that the risen Jesus Christ appeared before Saul in body?

Saul had a mystical experience of the Christ long after the alleged 40 days of sightings. He likens this experience to having seen the resurrected Jesus but this resulted from his adapted style of teaching, especially to the Greeks.

Do you accept the Christian belief that Jesus was crucified dead and buried, and that on the third day he arose again from the dead, the Son of God?

Literally, no. However this narrative has deeper spiritual significance.

Well, that is what Paul wrote, and what many Christians believe.

ROMANS {1:3} Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; {1:4} And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Yes, plenty of metaphor to convey more profound spiritual teachings rather than literal historic truths.

I'm aware of what Christians believe and don't believe, thank you.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So it would seem - and yet only Baha'is are permitted to say so whilst at the same time recommending the prior removal of "the rafter from thine own eye" to everyone else! There really does seem to be a collective cognitive disconnect here - you guys really seem incapable of discerning your own double standards...but how will you be assured of a "mighty recompense...before God" when you clearly have "diverse weights and measures" for assessing religious truth? (Proverbs 20:10)

It could be considered there is a fundamental trend that is not being considered.

As a Baha'i we have accepted the explanations of Baha'u'llah that all the Great Beings are from God and that their purpose has always been to guide man to all that is good. We are followers of them one and all and will explore all thay have said. Not what man has decided thay have said.

In doing that, one has to tackle man formulated fundamental doctrines, all made to show a particular faith is the only path, the final Word.

It is not about judging each person, it is about fundamental midsets that have become the clouds that reject. All new Faiths in all recorded history have had to face the same rejections now given.

Thus I do not judge you, nor anyone one person, but I am obligated to state the point of differences is not of God, but of our own thoughts.

Regards Tony
 
Last edited:

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I would have to follow many rules and regulations if I were to practice medicine on the Sabbath.
Ha ha!
No medicine on the Sabbath...........

There you go....... out of 507 amazing laws for selection into a modern day guide to successful society you chuck in a law which after thousands of years would need adaptation.

Did I not write that even the poor laws would need adaptation to today's Commerce, Industry, Travel and Retail scenarios?

I do not believe that Bahai has layed down any poor-laws that could equal the Mosiac ones.

Have you ever considered becoming a Noahide?
I have great respect for Noahide tenets.
But I am a Deist .............

The thing about the Deity is that it not only is every thing everywhere, but that every thing everywhere is under its influence, no matter what. It doesn't have to sell itself, promise anything, guide anything, it simply is.
And no thing can leave it, there is no apostasy, only being and changing.

Then, having accepted that, if there is a reasonable system for better living for humans, then that would be great. The Laws of Moses, updated, would be OK.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Saul had a mystical experience of the Christ long after the alleged 40 days of sightings. He likens this experience to having seen the resurrected Jesus but this resulted from his adapted style of teaching, especially to the Greeks.
What is a 'mystical experience'?

Literally, no. However this narrative has deeper spiritual significance.
What is 'spiritual significance'?

Yes, plenty of metaphor to convey more profound spiritual teachings rather than literal historic truths.
What is a 'profound spiritual teaching'?

I'm aware of what Christians believe and don't believe, thank you.
Oh really? Please don't thank me, because I don't think that you do.
There are many Creeds, and many differing beliefs in Christianity.
But you seem to be attempting to knit Christianity in to fit with Bahai writings whilst not actually believing any basic tenet about Christianity into your Faith's own background? That's what it looks like.

A modern day word springs to mind which is often used in political circles................. 'spin'.
That might serve better than 'knit' I suppose.

Profound mystical spiritual ..... spin.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So in regards to the Baha'is of Iran you have now seen to look into the Truth of that matter?

You don't read my posts.

But since you throw up Iran into the debate once more..... You clearly did not see what I wrote to Sen, explaining that I was an old tec and that when I retired the young ones were just taking over, the IT Tecs, the Digital Detectives. They are the ones best suited to look into the Truth of any International matters such as Iran.

On this thread and at different times Bahais have written that suggest how the Bahais of Iran are being executed for just being Bahais, are being arrested for nothing, whilst living honest, decent law abiding lives.

An acquaintance spent about ten minutes on all this and assures me that over ten thousand bahais live in Tehran at this time which could not be the case if for the last hundred years they have been executed 'out of hand', that they do break 'byelaws' on the way that meetings are conducted, and that they run some kind of 'clandestine university' system, whatever that is.

It's best not to cherry pick at situations, after all, that's what political parties do, yes?

If so Good on you, well done.
Why do you write stuff that you don't mean?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Good to see you quoting from the KJV.

You said that the 7 headed, 10 horned beast being referenced several times it is the same beast. One is a red dragon. The other the leopard etc and one has 10 crowns the other 7. The dragon gives power and authority to the beast. This beast was given power 42 months.

I have addressed these issues in another post, recently sent. Post #13098 posted 3 days ago. Its such a fast moving thread, it can be hard to keep up.

Who is the red dragon? Who is the beast with the leopard etc stuff? Are you saying both are the Ummayad dynasty? If yes then did they last 42 months? No. Do they sound like they are same creature? No.

The red dragon is the Abbasid Caliphate that followed the Umayyad. It lead to the golden age of Islam.

Abbasid Caliphate - Wikipedia

It says in verse 8... all that dwell upon the earth shall worship this beast, except those whose names are written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Who is this Lamb that was slain? Jesus, the Bab or Baha'u'llah? Only problem, this is more than 1000 years before the Baha'i Faith began.

Its a clear reference to Jesus IMHO. Whether we take the author of Revelation as being the apostle John or part of the Johannine epistles, there is a close association with the gospel of John. This verse has echoes of the Logos

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:1=3

There were many Christians that were part of the Islamic Caliphates and they were called to adhere closely to Christ's teaching. After all, He taught:

And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
Mark 12:17

Then comes another beast in verse 11. And you said this was the Abbasids? Here's the link to the Ummayads and the Abbasids. "The Abbasids were members of the Hashim clan, rivals of the Umayyads... Around 746, Abu Muslim... successfully initiated an open revolt against Umayyad rule..." But here's what Revelation says about the relationship between the two beasts:

The Abbasids did not cause everyone to worship the first beast. And none of these dynasties lasted the 42 month/1260 years. But this part of the prophecy comes long after the Second Woe. I don't get why the redundancy of the 1260 years. But, if you are comfortable "adapting" the prophecies to fit the Baha'i story then fine. Let's move on to the rest of Revelation.

It was a caliphate that last 500 years and spanned an enormous part of the biblical world. It was culturally and technologically the most advanced civilisation on the planet, and its influence on Europe was profound. It lead to the golden age of Islam which was probably the single most important factor contributing to Europe's move from the medieval period to the renaissance.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia

As an aside, while 1260 is based on the religious dispensation of Islam from Muhammad's pilgrimage, to the declaration of the Bab, there are similar durations of time where the Caliphate that up usurped the Imams existed from the rise of the Umayyad's in 661 to the dissolution of the Ottoman Caliphate during the early 20th century. There is also a similar period of time that these Islamic Caliphates controlled Jerusalem.

I'm ready to move on too.
 
Last edited:

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
............................
Its called grumpy old man sydrome, maybe you have a prescription for it?
.................................
It's called Jack Daniels!
See? In a Bahai World I'd need a prescription for that!

Scene: Doctors surgery.
Old-B: Oh Please Doctor 009, please sir could you write me a prescription for 75cls of Jack Daniels please, you see sir, I'm feeling all kind of grumpy and tetchy today and the Missus....
Doctor 009: Quite unnecessary! All you need is a good long walk!
:p
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I've never tried it.
Back in th mid 70's half the folks in our street were on it.

The Rolling stones nick named it mother's little helper as it was prescribed for all the neurotic housewives.

Its effective but can lead to addiction and mental slowing.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
But you seem to be attempting to knit Christianity in to fit with Bahai writings whilst not actually believing any basic tenet about Christianity into your Faith's own background? That's what it looks like.

Not true.

I posted this recently but with all that whisky you're knocking back you may have forgotten.;)

We believe in an Omnipotent, All-Powerful God.
God has created the universe and all that exists
God has qualities of Love and Justice
God is concerned for His creation
Man is a special part of His creation and we have been created in His image
God out of concern for His creation and humanity has guided us through Great Teachers and/or prophets
One of those Great/Teachers or Prophets (Jesus) is exalted above all humans
God expects us to make a great effort to live in accordance with His teachings and to have Faith in Jesus
The OT prophets have provided God's guidance to the Jewish peoples
The Bible has a record of Jesus, the apostles, and the OT prophets
Jesus, the apostles, and the OT prophets we guided by God's unerring spirit
The Bible should be considered authentic and authoritative
We should love God with all our being and love our neighbours and enemies as Jesus taught
We should forgive others
We should be good as God is good
We believe that we have a soul and that there is an afterlife
We believe that evil is a real problem
We believe that Christ promised He would return and spoke of the signs that would accompany His Return.
The Returned Christ will bring in a new age or era in human history.
Jesus is the 'Son of God'
'Salvation' is intimately associated with Christ.
Jesus was crucified
His sacrifice enabled our salvation
The resurrection is a concept/reality of profound significance and importance
 
Top