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Featured How are these Great Beings explained?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by loverofhumanity, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Sure, its free speech. Anyone can say anything. That misunderstanding was corrected months ago.

    I like what Jesus said. Take the log out of your own eye, before removing the speck from your brothers. We all have our faults. Best that we work on our own rather than exaggerating the faults of others.
     
  2. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Been busy writing up reports and seeing patients today.

    I'll be responding soon.:)
     
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  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I can assure you that is not a Little at a time...ha ha :D;) It is a very comprehensive History of the Babi Faith and when I read it, I was riveted. Its over 669 pages.

    Shoghi Effendi spent 8 months day and night translating this into English, it was His Priority, thus it holds a pivotal place in the Faith. It is very moving in many places and some of the Battles are monumental. It was a time of Transition from old laws to new laws.

    It is some story and the great thing is much was recorded not long after the events, so the future will have much to read about and will be able to see more clearly the radical change our age is seeing.

    Regards Tony
     
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  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Bahá'í/Bábí split - Wikipedia

    Regards Tony
     
    #13204 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Nov 2, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
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  5. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Damme! :D
    The thing is, long ago I discounted Professor Dominic Crosson's model of a ragged peasant rambling from one village to another, with maybe a couple of 'disciples' ranging ahead to present their master's amazing talents to the people in a build up, and then the maaster, a shuffling holy man would arrive to speak and to demonstrate his abilities.

    Magic for Meal.

    And Crosson's intense and continuing focus upon Roman patronage-for-loyalty irritates, because there weren't many official Romans in Galilee; There may have been Roman observers, but Antipas would have chosen his own officials, publicans and supervisors. Roman patronage? Nah..... maybe copied, but not knitted into the orders of the peasants..... ?

    As you know, Origen copied Celcius and the description of Jesus's disciples as 'ten boatmen and two tax officials' rings as true, I reckon that Levi and Judas were both publicans or had been at one time... and there they are, all 12 connected with that Lake. Maybe Jesus had followed his father's trade but left his home area to work around the lake as a healer, speaker, etc for a living?

    ...and they would have made a better living tan Crosson suggests imo. For instance the Baptist's disciples could have been immersing/redeeming scores of pilgrims each day, thus saving them from the Temple fees, duties, huigh prices and head tax and so a 'coin for a favour' would have provided these immersers with a reasonable income. So it could have been with Jesus's disciples, for they all went down to the Jordan to copy the immerser.

    Jesus was definitely anti-Temple (mercy before sacrifice) and I often wonder whether he might have been immersing pilgrims in Genessaret? Thousands of pilgrims........ no wonder even tax officers were attracted away from their duties.

    Sorry....... I wander off........ :)
     
  6. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Meh....... 'Listen to us! Our story is true!'
     
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  7. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    :D
    Ah ha! Good point. I don't think that Bahais believe in Evil as a real 'condition', and I cannot remember whether they believe in the Devil, real Demons and such. Or real angels?

    ....'spiritually dead'....... all of this nonsense about spirits, spiritual, numerology, prophecy and so forth while denying exactly those words in other hearts and minds.

    It's simple, I wouldn't want any of this, imagine a majority-Bahai World...... what exactly would happen to nasty ol' badgers who grumble away in their sets, eh? Have you seen that scene in the Bourne Legacy where the hero hears the sound of an aircraft and leaves the timber building? And then....... Whoooooshhhh, Booom! Blam!
    No more ol'Badger. What a loss to the World! :cry:

    :p
     
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  8. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    So you prefer that to Baha'u'llah's observation: "For the people are wandering in the paths of delusion, bereft of discernment to see God with their own eyes, or hear His Melody with their own ears. Thus have We found them, as thou also dost witness."
     
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  9. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    "It behoveth you to observe truthfulness, whereby your temples shall be adorned, your names uplifted, your stations exalted amidst men, and a mighty recompense assured for you before God."
    (Bahá’u’lláh, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts)

    "Say: trustworthiness is the sun of the heaven of My commandments, truthfulness is its moon, and praiseworthy attributes are its stars. Yet the people, for the most part, understand not."
    (Bahá’u’lláh, Trustworthiness, p. 332)

    Now that is why we try to determine what is Truth.
     
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  10. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    So it would seem - and yet only Baha'is are permitted to say so whilst at the same time recommending the prior removal of "the rafter from thine own eye" to everyone else! There really does seem to be a collective cognitive disconnect here - you guys really seem incapable of discerning your own double standards...but how will you be assured of a "mighty recompense...before God" when you clearly have "diverse weights and measures" for assessing religious truth? (Proverbs 20:10)
     
    #13210 siti, Nov 3, 2017
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  11. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    You are taking a Christian fundamentalist approach of taking sacred scripture out of context. Baha'u'llah was speaking of the condition of 19th century Persia when He revealed this tablet to Ahmad.

    Tablet of Ahmad
     
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  12. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Bully for you!
    But so do many other people.
    That's what some of us are seeking here, on this thread.
     
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  13. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Because we are all one people, and God has created us that no man shall exalt himself above another.

    Bahá'í Reference Library - The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, Page 20
     
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  14. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Exalt: To raise in Rank.

    Bahais will not raise themselves in rank above others?
     
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  15. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    That's contrary to the spiritual life. Jesus taught he who is greatest is least.

    The Baha'i writings are strong on humility.

    He must never seek to exalt himself above anyone, must wash away from the tablet of his heart every trace of pride and vainglory, must cling unto patience and resignation, observe silence, and refrain from idle talk.

    Humility and Trust | What Bahá’ís Believe
     
  16. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Apart from laws to protect from sexual transmission of deseases with their horrific punishments, the Laws of Moses beat any other theocracy with ease.

    In a World where 1% of the people possess nearly 90% of the wealth, and where 9 people possess 50% of the wealth, the laws of Moses would mash that situation down into reasonable distribution.

    But Sadly the Priesthood were as susceptible to corruption as any other humans, it just tookk a little longer, maybe?

    No other religion has, tmk, ever written such excellent poor laws as those found within the Laws of Moses. If they were introduced and applied to today's commerce, industry, travel, retail and other trades then the results could be amazing.

    Asian and N.American religions may well have supported very good poor laws but of the Abrahamic religions the Mosiac Theocracy must surely still be the winner?
     
  17. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for sharing some of the story of your life. It good to have a better sense of who I am talking to.

    I understand that the JWs in USA have one of the lowest rates of university education amongst all faith adherents?

    On the other hand they seem to have a very good knowledge of the bible, in large part to justify their own unusual theology, but of course the Baha'is could be accused of that too.

    What do you need to do to get disfellowshipped and what's the rational for shunning?

    Is it OK to marry someone of a different denomination or different religion for JWs?

    I can see becoming involved with a married woman, albeit long time separated, could be a major moral dilemma for you. Was it?

    What a fascinating dream and one I could interpret too. You have even given me permission. How certain are you it wasn't a Divinely inspired dream in some way?

    Acts 2:17 comes to mind.

    And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

    We could define a delusion as a fixed false belief as psychiatrists do. However for it to be clinically significant it needs to affect your capacity to function in your day to day activities which clearly didn't apply to you.

    I think that is a reasonable hypothesis and the most likely explanation, though if you have never had a dream or episode like this before I wouldn't exclude a spiritual dimension to your dream.

    Your experience is clearly not in the same category as someone having delusions in the context of a major mental illness such as schizophrenia or bipolar affective disorder.

    I agree that your experience as you have described it fits the definition of delusion. It has clearly been a valuable experience in that you have come to understand different ways of understanding your inner reality. @Vinayaka had a mystical experience when he was in his late teens that led him to become a Hindu.

    I have emphasised that we should avoid calling other's delusional in our day to day life simply because they hold differing opinions or worldviews to us. Try to call religious teachers like Jesus and Muhammad delusional, is simply crossing lines of disrespect for others beliefs and rules of common courtesy and decency. I therefore wonder if it is a defence mechanism for you, and if you were really comfortable with who you are and what you believe, would it be necessary to be so extreme?

    Its good you value reason and independent investigation, and you apply that to better understanding yourself.
     
  18. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    What is 'Spiritual Life'?
    What is 'Idle Talk'?
     
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  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    I would have to follow many rules and regulations if I were to practice medicine on the Sabbath.

    Have you ever considered becoming a Noahide?
     
  20. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
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    It is when we are devoted to our spiritual practice in a sense of applying it to all areas of our life.

    Speech without concerns of consequences to ourselves and others. Backbiting and gossip are good examples. Disregarding truth is another.
     
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