How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

How strange, why so? Have not arguments broken apart all Faiths of the Past.

So why do the Baha'i' stay on this thread and continue to argue? According to your logic, it will break your own faith.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You use the same analogy as my first Guru. One of the lessons was entitled 'The River of Life'.

Editted for download... eBookStore free download: The River of Life by Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami PDF | Download free eReader books

I have to register and pay for free trial. Is there another way I can find it?

 

[Vinayaka]

I have to register and pay for free trial. Is there another way I can find it?

Some free trial that is, lol. I'll look.

Here's a far better version in a far more traditional way. Hope you can tune in.

Talks - The River of Life: The River, a Symbol of Life

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Brahman, and whether or not it's God, is an ongoing debate within Hindu circles. My friend Aupmanyav insists it's not God. I say it is, but a very differing concept than the Abrahamic God. In that sense I'm an atheist ... atheist to the Abrahamic God. I simple don't believe that that God exists. 'God' was a very poor translation of Brahman, but now maybe we're stuck with it.

Haha. I'ma make it worse. I'm thinking Brahma as god and Brahman as spirit.

Oooh. Here is a site on Buddhism and Hinduism views on impermanence and samsara. Let me know if this sounds about right. You can use the "Find" and type hinduism to skip to that part instead.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Some free trial that is, lol. I'll look.

Here's a far better version in a far more traditional way. Hope you can tune in.

Talks - The River of Life: The River, a Symbol of Life

Perfect!

 

[Vinayaka]

Haha. I'ma make it worse. I'm thinking Brahma as god and Brahman as spirit.

Oooh. Here is a site on Buddhism and Hinduism views on impermanence and samsara. Let me know if this sounds about right. You can use the "Find" and type hinduism to skip to that part instead.

For me, this is just intellect, and the intellect doesn't actually contain this kind of knowledge, or put another way, we can'f find out by using the tool called the intellect. We have to go into deep meditative states to actually figure this sort of thing out. My suspicions are that Buddhist and Hindu deeper concepts would be nearly the same, if not equal.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For me, this is just intellect, and the intellect doesn't actually contain this kind of knowledge, or put another way, we can'f find out by using the tool called the intellect. We have to go into deep meditative states to actually figure this sort of thing out. My suspicions are that Buddhist and Hindu deeper concepts would be nearly the same, if not equal.

I honestly think so. There are a lot, I mean a lot of different interpretations of what The Buddha taught. Some are completely atheistic and on the other side completely mystical. The teacher that gave me refuge travels around the world and most of the nuns don't speak English, so I have little to go on but my own experiences and connections in meditation and observation and some intellect and Dhamma talks. I had a huge experience yesterday and today to help me jump start or find a specific focus to practice. I've been in school for years, so intellect is pretty important. It helps me put it in layman's terms what I experience. Also, I write and paint so if I can't express it, it's doing more damage than speaking or writing it in one way or another.

Not traditional as per other countries and cultures would do it. The Dalai Lama, I can't remember if I posted it, advised westerners to stay within their native religion. So, in my case, I have no religion since I was catholic in my adult life for a smidget of a second. There is a lot of cultural opposition with converts especially when one isn't ready or serious about the religion they want to convert to.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Vinayaka Did you delete your post?

 

[Vinayaka]

@Vinayaka Did you delete your post?

I moved it. Accidentally had it in the wrong thread.

 

[loverofhumanity]

What's with your focus on binge drinking and partying? You must live in some very unusual place. Are there no decent people where you live? You make it sound like there are only two kinds of people, Baha'i' and partying, drunken sots. I have news for you.

Had the billions of the worlds Religionists really been following their religion sincerely how is it possible to have had two world wars, a holocaust and the decay in morals that we’ve seen over the decades?

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's not random like that. There is much more to it. If it was Islam, it would be Sufi or some other non-violent mystical sect. Although there are no religions directly involved, there is consciousness. There are high minded Christians, Muslims, etc, and stupid anava laced Hindus. So it's not the religion, built the level of maturity of the soul.

Last time I was a Hindu. I got the wrong address this time, but eventually returned home. Of course Vinayaka the person won't exist. Just a soul.

I watched one soul in transition from a non-religious family once upon a time. She was running all over the place, quite lost, I'm not sure what eventually happened. When there is no preparation for stuff, that's what happens. Similar to a panic attack right after transition. But I'm sure that soul eventually found another body too.

How do you learn? By that I mean how knowledgeable are you as far as advancement in your religion. Are you a very advanced Hindu, the level of a guru or how do you determine your own progress?

 

[Vinayaka]

Had the billions of the worlds Religionists really been following their religion sincerely how is it possible to have had two world wars, a holocaust and the decay in morals that we’ve seen over the decades?

That's just the start. You missed a lot more. Not all of it was in the name of religion, but much was. Many did think they were following their religion sincerely. There is lots of folly. Time to get used to it. It does no good for the future of humanity to complain about the past. Learn from it and move on.

 

[Vinayaka]

How do you learn? By that I mean how knowledgeable are you as far as advancement in your religion. Are you a very advanced Hindu, the level of a guru or how do you determine your own progress?

I don't see it that way. As long as you see it that way, in terms of judging how advanced somebody is, it becomes ego and price, more futility and folly on the path. So it's not about being better, more advanced. etc. That stuff is just a waste of valuable time. A guy could be working for a charity instead, or having a real life discussion with a friend.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So why do the Baha'i' stay on this thread and continue to argue? According to your logic, it will break your own faith.

Thank you for the cure.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

How strange, why so?

Because an Ordained Prophet, a messenger from God, speaking or writing God's Divine Words, will be as clear and as simple as possible.

Have not arguments broken apart all Faiths of the Past.

Why do you do that? Why, when asked about a weakness in your own Faith (like the need for clarification by other messengers) do you point somewhere else?
Your Faith might be stronger if it could rise on its own, but it's shackled and chained to others.
You're clingingng to a broken raft, somewhat.

Thus I offer what will unfold,

We can already see what is unfolding.
We are being told that Bahauallah didn't mean what he wrote here, or there, and his written word is being changed, rather quickly into 'religious add-ons' and 'religious-take-offs' which could lead to breakaways, factions and wars, just as the Hadiths have lead to such conflict.

, so as time is short so are my explanations....sorry if they seem blunt.

No probs..... sorry if mine do.

This is the Faith that many attempts will not lead to a lasting break. All are doomed to fade into oblivion and the future will see the Baha'i Faith unbroken into mans many paths.

It won't need attempts, it has been beset with fragments and factions already, and Bahais have been cast out left right and centre, while the remainder insist upon a future unbroken conflict free theocracy.

Regards Tony

Thanks. OB.

 

[oldbadger]

Just out of interest I wonder why you place the blame on God’s Word instead of man having become so unspiritual that he cannot understand spiritual terms anymore only material things like binge drinking and partying?

Oh my goodness! And there was you, claiming such wonderful equality for all, and now you tell me that the Divine Words of God are only meant to be understood by a very few people..... the spiritually advanced!
Are you suggesting that those who cannot understand the Divione Words of God as written by your Ordained Messenger must be partying drunken heathens?

Remember that it was you Bahais who couldn't understand what your Ordained Messenger wrote. It is you who continually repeat other people's ideas about what your messenger meant.

Had man maintained his spiritual nature these things might be very clear to him as they are to the Baha’is.

No they aren't! You need sons and grandsons to tell you what the messenger meant. And you turn his words round to suit the mood.
That is not spiritual...... it's basic.

The readiness to jump the gun and blame God for man’s spiritual waywardness indicates bias to me. Man who has been the cause of world wars and genocides and a holocaust can he in such a condition be expected to have any understanding of God’s Words at all?

When a backward delinquent kid cannot understand its teacher, don't change the kid..... change the teacher.

It is man who has chosen to turn away from God to the extent he can’t even understand spiritual terms anymore but he knows where the nearest pub and nightclub or casino is doesn’t he?

What?
You understand spiritual terms?

Do me a favour. Dive deep into your spirituality and resurface with any sentence that you believe to be 'Spiritual'. Be my guide............

 

[oldbadger]

Just the nature of any power struggle. Stuff happens. people shout, people run away mad, people gloat. It's all instinctive animalistic behaviour unbecoming of our species. Still, on some level (ego level) it's perfectly normal.

Yeah..... perfectly normal.
But in recent posts I've been told that those who cannot understand the spirituality of the Bahai message are mostly partying drunkards and lowlifes, but Bahais didn't understand the spirituality of the messages, needed further messengers to tell them what the messenger really meant.

And so Bahai is already building opposing viewpoints which one day will cause rifts.

What I notice this morning is that Bahai is already building a tower upon which bahais can stand upon, looking down at the world of the 'pagans and heathens' and saying ,'See?' they never deserved to have a say in how this world will run'.

EQUALITY

 

[oldbadger]

Had the billions of the worlds Religionists really been following their religion sincerely how is it possible to have had two world wars, a holocaust and the decay in morals that we’ve seen over the decades?

Have you ever read the old testament?

 

[oldbadger]

.... I wonder why you place the blame on God’s Word instead of man having become so unspiritual that he cannot understand spiritual terms anymore only material things like binge drinking and partying? Had man maintained his spiritual nature these things might be very clear to him as they are to the Baha’is.

Your post reminded me of the Pharisees......

Mark: many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many....... {2:16} And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? {2:17} When Jesus heard [it,] he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So why do we study a Faith other than our own? Is it to become a better person and one who is more able to find unity and love with our co-religionists? Perhaps it is to attack and defend the Faith of another and for our own ego? If our motive is sincere and pure then our goal is already accomplished. If it is otherwise then best we not enter into the arena of interfaith discourse.

I share the water-snake simile from a Buddhist Sutta that @Carlita kindly shared:


"Monks, there is the case where some worthless men study the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions [the earliest classifications of the Buddha's teachings]. Having studied the Dhamma, they don't ascertain the meaning (or: the purpose) of those Dhammas [5] with their discernment. Not having ascertained the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment, they don't come to an agreement through pondering. They study the Dhamma both for attacking others and for defending themselves in debate. They don't reach the goal for which [people] study the Dhamma. Their wrong grasp of those Dhammas will lead to their long-term harm & suffering. Why is that? Because of the wrong-graspedness of the Dhammas.


"Suppose there were a man needing a water-snake, seeking a water-snake, wandering in search of a water-snake. He would see a large water-snake and grasp it by the coils or by the tail. The water-snake, turning around, would bite him on the hand, on the arm, or on one of his limbs, and from that cause he would suffer death or death-like suffering. Why is that? Because of the wrong-graspedness of the water-snake. In the same way, there is the case where some worthless men study the Dhamma... Having studied the Dhamma, they don't ascertain the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment. Not having ascertained the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment, they don't come to an agreement through pondering. They study the Dhamma both for attacking others and for defending themselves in debate. They don't reach the goal for which [people] study the Dhamma. Their wrong grasp of those Dhammas will lead to their long-term harm & suffering. Why is that? Because of the wrong-graspedness of the Dhammas.


"But then there is the case where some clansmen study the Dhamma... Having studied the Dhamma, they ascertain the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment. Having ascertained the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment, they come to an agreement through pondering. They don't study the Dhamma either for attacking others or for defending themselves in debate. They reach the goal for which people study the Dhamma. Their right grasp of those Dhammas will lead to their long-term welfare & happiness. Why is that? Because of the right-graspedness of the Dhammas.


"Suppose there were a man needing a water-snake, seeking a water-snake, wandering in search of a water-snake. He would see a large water-snake and pin it down firmly with a cleft stick. Having pinned it down firmly with a forked stick, he would grasp it firmly by the neck. Then no matter how much the water-snake might wrap its coils around his hand, his arm, or any of his limbs, he would not from that cause suffer death or death-like suffering. Why is that? Because of the right-graspedness of the water-snake. In the same way, there is the case where some clansmen study the Dhamma... Having studied the Dhamma, they ascertain the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment. Having ascertained the meaning of those Dhammas with their discernment, they come to an agreement through pondering. They don't study the Dhamma either for attacking others or for defending themselves in debate. They reach the goal for which people study the Dhamma. Their right grasp of those Dhammas will lead to their long-term welfare & happiness. Why is that? Because of the right-graspedness of the Dhammas.


"Therefore, monks, when you understand the meaning of any statement of mine, that is how you should remember it. But when you don't understand the meaning of any statement of mine, then right there you should cross-question me or the experienced monks.

Alagaddupama Sutta: The Water-Snake Simile

So fellow faith and interfaith practitioners. How are we grasping the water-snake today?