CG Didymus
Veteran Member
It's not that big a deal. I hit 10,000 and I'm still waiting for my prize.
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Why ask this question at all? Everyone has come to a personal belief, based on their experiences, readings, gut, logic, mental stability, intuitive ability, intelligence, etc. If they didn't think that particular belief they have come to was best for them, then change, darnit!
Edited ... I can't possibly see a circumstance where I would ask this question. It only makes sense if you want some reason to argue in your own religion's favour, which, to me, reeks of insecurity. Still, lots of people do ask such things, as witnessed many times on these forums.
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Baha'i', as far as I can tell, just has one school ... it's called Baha'i'. Major differences of opinion wouldn't be tolerated. Minor stuff, sure.
In many of the other major religions, we have hundreds, if not thousands of schools.
Well...
I've had out of body experiences when I was younger. Later own, I thought it was a spiritual phenomena. Then I learned every experiences is interpreted by the mind. It reflected my experiences with seizures and depression-neuro conditions. Then I learned that training my mental state affects my health and spiritual well being. The Buddha so happens to make that more personal, spiritual, and devotional. Now, I know I have these experiences and I'm not crazy. I just have to admit they are my experiences and be me.
They contradict. Moska, going off this thread, is union with god to put it simply. Buddhism has no union. I guess some would define liberation as a mystical experience of The Buddha. In the beginning of this thread, that was how Bahai liked The Buddha pointing to god by seeing his enlightenment as an experience of god of some sort. Other Buddhists from the Dhamma talks I'm listening to see it simple. No suffering. Death. Freedom. If Vinayaka gives you that video, it's a good one. I honestly would not compare it to Bahai faith.
Why one truth? Why the best?
*Smells Abrahamic nearby*
Of course they contradict each other and can not be all correct.
Naturally I am an unashamed Abrahamic adherent and practitioner of an Abrahamic faith. If it were not Bahai then it would probably be Christian, though certInly not fundamentalist, and I would have little inclination to become a Noahide or Muslim.
Perhaps your outer body experience was your soul and that it separates from your body for good upon death as it wings it's way to the next stage in its journey?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Major contradictory beliefs is a problem for Baha'is, 'cause you say that all religions came from the same source. To say that each and every time, people changed or misinterpreted the original teachings is too easy of an answer. It would mean that not once, the original teachings were put away and protected by someone, anyone. It's also saying that Jews and Christians don't have their original teachings.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
If you have time, check out the article in the "Dialogue" magazine called " A Modest Proposal".
Never heard of it. Is there a link?
Edited ... I found it. An alternate title is 'Stuck in Dogma'
It's not a problem for Baha'i's, but it sure would be a major problem for anyone looking into Baha'i'.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
If you haven't already answered this and I missed it... I need to know how the first "Woe" is supposed to be Muhammad? The first Woe is described in Rev 9: 1-12. Verse 5 has a five month period of time that I've never heard an explanation for it. And in verse 11, a king called "Abaddon" or "Apollyon is mentioned. Who is this?
Because I like to ask the tough questions, even the ones that don't have an easy answer.
I would argue that a fearless search for truth, wherever that truth may lie, is worthy character, not a sign of insecurity.
Too many live their lives fearful of questioning for fear of answers they may hear.
Because I like to ask the tough questions, even the ones that don't have an easy answer.
I would argue that a fearless search for truth, wherever that truth may lie, is worthy character, not a sign of insecurity.
Too many live their lives fearful of questioning for fear of answers they may hear.
I agree. That's why I'm a member of a faith that insists on questioning everything. It's compulsory. But this question you asked, in my view, isn't a tough question at all. It's answer is easy, and I gave it to you.
That is true you answered my question.
How are these Great Beings explained?
It was a brilliant answer and I wouldn't expect anymore.
From what I read in the Bible, not how they should.
I see the same Great Being manifested in Christian, Hindu and Buddhism writings.
I will put up another post on the Subject of the Great Beings that will give other thoughts.
Regards Tony
It was an interesting exercise to see what past scriptures may have said about a "Great Being".
This is an extract of a few of those quotes; What I found is there are many quotes about "Great Being" and all are thought provoking;
32. From this very Self, abiding within his Self, come forth all Pranas (speech, &c.), all worlds, all Vedas, all gods and all beings; its Upanishad (revelation) is that it is 'the true of the true.' Now as from a fire of greenwood,when kindled, clouds of smoke come forth by themselves (though belonging to the fire), thus from that great Being has been breathed forth all this which is the Rig-veda, the Yagur-veda, the Sama-veda, the Atharvangirasas (Atharva-veda), the Itihasa (legendary stories), the Purana (accounts of the creation, &c.), Vidya (ceremonial doctrines), the Upanishads, the Slokas (verses interspersed in the Upanishads, &c.), the Sutras (compendious statements), the Anuvyakhyanas (explanatory notes), the Vyakhyanas (elucidations) - all these things are his. (Upanishads vol. 2 : Maitrayana-Brahmaya-Upanishad)
"10. As clouds of smoke proceed by themselves out of a lighted fire kindled with damp fuel, thus, verily, O Maitreyi, has been breathed forth from this great Being what we have as Rig-veda, Yagur-veda, Sama-veda, Atharvangirasas, Itihasa (legends), Purana (cosmogonies), Vidya (knowledge), the Upanishads, Slokas (verses), Sutras (prose rules), Anuvyakhyanas (glosses), Vyakhyanas (commentaries)'. From him alone all these were breathed forth.
11. 'As all waters find their centre in the sea, all touches in the skin, all tastes in the tongue, all smells in the nose, all colours in the eye, all sounds in the ear, all percepts in the mind, all knowledge in the heart, all actions in the hands, all movements in the feet, and all the Vedas in speech,-
12. 'As a lump of salt, when thrown into water, becomes dissolved into water, and could not be taken out again, but wherever we taste (the water) it is salt,-thus verily, O Maitreyi, does this great Being, endless, unlimited, consisting of nothing but knowledge', rise from out these elements, and vanish again in them. When he has departed, there is no more knowledge (name), I say,O Maitreyi.' Thus spoke Yagnavalkya." (Upanishads vol. 2 : Brihadaranyaka-Upanishad Part 1)
Saarang, Fifth Mehl: The Lord has blessed His servant with His Name.
What can any poor mortal do to someone who has the Lord as his Savior and Protector? He Himself is the Great Being; He Himself is the Leader. He Himself accomplishes the tasks of His servant. Our Lord and Master destroys all demons; He is the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts. He Himself saves the honor of His servants; He Himself blesses them with stability. From the very beginning of time, and throughout the ages, He saves His servants. O Nanak, how rare is the person who knows God (Shri Guru Granth Sahib : Section 30 - Raag Saarang)
"For malice is a grievous malady which depriveth man from recognizing the Great Being, and debarreth him from the splendors of the sun of certitude. We pray and hope that through the grace and mercy of God He may remove this mighty obstacle. He, verily, is the Potent, the All-Subduing, the Almighty. (Baha'u'llah : Epistle to the Son of the Wolf)
"The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: O well-beloved ones! The tabernacle of unity hath been raised; regard ye not one another as strangers. Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment.." (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom.." (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
What has become very apparent is that Baha'u'llah has started many many passages with, "The Great Being Saith" (There are many more that start with "The Great Being Saith").
What is a great meditation is quoted at 32 above when it says; "From this very Self, abiding within his Self, come forth all Pranas (speech, &c.), all worlds, all Vedas, all gods and all beings..."
What can I say but God is Most Great?
Regards Tony
This is an extract of a few of those quotes; What I found is there are many quotes about "Great Being" and all are thought provoking;
32. From this very Self, abiding within his Self, come forth all Pranas (speech, &c.), all worlds, all Vedas, all gods and all beings; its Upanishad (revelation) is that it is 'the true of the true.' Now as from a fire of greenwood,when kindled, clouds of smoke come forth by themselves (though belonging to the fire), thus from that great Being has been breathed forth all this which is the Rig-veda, the Yagur-veda, the Sama-veda, the Atharvangirasas (Atharva-veda), the Itihasa (legendary stories), the Purana (accounts of the creation, &c.), Vidya (ceremonial doctrines), the Upanishads, the Slokas (verses interspersed in the Upanishads, &c.), the Sutras (compendious statements), the Anuvyakhyanas (explanatory notes), the Vyakhyanas (elucidations) - all these things are his. (Upanishads vol. 2 : Maitrayana-Brahmaya-Upanishad)
"10. As clouds of smoke proceed by themselves out of a lighted fire kindled with damp fuel, thus, verily, O Maitreyi, has been breathed forth from this great Being what we have as Rig-veda, Yagur-veda, Sama-veda, Atharvangirasas, Itihasa (legends), Purana (cosmogonies), Vidya (knowledge), the Upanishads, Slokas (verses), Sutras (prose rules), Anuvyakhyanas (glosses), Vyakhyanas (commentaries)'. From him alone all these were breathed forth.
11. 'As all waters find their centre in the sea, all touches in the skin, all tastes in the tongue, all smells in the nose, all colours in the eye, all sounds in the ear, all percepts in the mind, all knowledge in the heart, all actions in the hands, all movements in the feet, and all the Vedas in speech,-
12. 'As a lump of salt, when thrown into water, becomes dissolved into water, and could not be taken out again, but wherever we taste (the water) it is salt,-thus verily, O Maitreyi, does this great Being, endless, unlimited, consisting of nothing but knowledge', rise from out these elements, and vanish again in them. When he has departed, there is no more knowledge (name), I say,O Maitreyi.' Thus spoke Yagnavalkya." (Upanishads vol. 2 : Brihadaranyaka-Upanishad Part 1)
Saarang, Fifth Mehl: The Lord has blessed His servant with His Name.
What can any poor mortal do to someone who has the Lord as his Savior and Protector? He Himself is the Great Being; He Himself is the Leader. He Himself accomplishes the tasks of His servant. Our Lord and Master destroys all demons; He is the Inner-knower, the Searcher of hearts. He Himself saves the honor of His servants; He Himself blesses them with stability. From the very beginning of time, and throughout the ages, He saves His servants. O Nanak, how rare is the person who knows God (Shri Guru Granth Sahib : Section 30 - Raag Saarang)
"For malice is a grievous malady which depriveth man from recognizing the Great Being, and debarreth him from the splendors of the sun of certitude. We pray and hope that through the grace and mercy of God He may remove this mighty obstacle. He, verily, is the Potent, the All-Subduing, the Almighty. (Baha'u'llah : Epistle to the Son of the Wolf)
"The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: O well-beloved ones! The tabernacle of unity hath been raised; regard ye not one another as strangers. Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch. (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: The structure of world stability and order hath been reared upon, and will continue to be sustained by, the twin pillars of reward and punishment.." (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
"The Great Being saith: Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom.." (Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah)
What has become very apparent is that Baha'u'llah has started many many passages with, "The Great Being Saith" (There are many more that start with "The Great Being Saith").
What is a great meditation is quoted at 32 above when it says; "From this very Self, abiding within his Self, come forth all Pranas (speech, &c.), all worlds, all Vedas, all gods and all beings..."
What can I say but God is Most Great?
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I'm curious. Why do Bahai consider themselves descendants of Abraham?
Where in biblical history and the bible does it talk about anyone outside the prophets?
If you were to fit Bahaullah's writings in the bible, from a christian and jewish view, where would it fit?
Probably other religions believe in the god of abraham and abraham himself but are not religions of abraham because they don't follow the history that connects them to Jewish and Christian heritage.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Perhaps your outer body experience was your soul and that it separates from your body for good upon death as it wings it's way to the next stage in its journey?
That's beautiful. It did something, though. Every time I went out, I'd crawl to the doorway trying not to blink my eyes. I get there and then I'm pulled back in a rush into my body. Another time I was looking at myself sleeping. I think some people have that so I don't know if that was a dream but that swoosh startled me awake. Another time was a dream but I woke up in the same position the dog attacked me. It was creepy. I stayed there for a good couple of minutes. One other time my whole body fell on the bed. It wasn't like you pick up part of your body and flop down.
Ever since then 'til probably mid twenties I tried "levitating" I think they call it. They have so many names to call it. Doctors figure the temporal lobe that controls memories and emotions may have something to do with that feeling or experience of being out of the body. Some people with seizures have de ja vus and others feel disassociated.
I found this story from Rumi, also thought provoking as to all the Names of One God, as shown in the Great Beings;
"The Masnavi was started by the Rumi during the final years of his life. He began dictating the first book around the age of 54 around the year 1258 and continued composing verses until his death in 1273." Masnavi - Wikipedia
This is the story of the tree of life.
:A certain wise man related that in Hindustan there was a tree of such wonderful virtue that whosoever ate of its fruit lived forever. Hearing this, a king deputed one of his courtiers to go in quest of it. The courtier accordingly proceeded to Hindustan, and traveled all over that country, inquiring of every one he met where this tree was to be found. Some of these persons professed their entire ignorance, others joked him, and others gave him false information; and, finally, he had to return to his country with his mission unaccomplished. He then, as a last resource, betook himself to the sage who had first spoken of the tree, and begged for further information about it, and the sage replied to him as follows:
The Shaikh laughed, and said to him, "O friend,
This is the tree of knowledge, O knowing one;
Very high, very fine, very expansive,
The very water of life from the circumfluent ocean.
Thou hast run after form, O ill-informed one,
Wherefore thou lackest the fruit of the tree of substance.
Sometimes it is named tree, sometimes sun,
Sometimes lake, and sometimes cloud.
'Tis one, though it has thousands of manifestations;
Its least manifestation is eternal life!
Though 'tis one, it has a thousand manifestations,
The names that fit that one are countless.
That one is to thy personality a father,
In regard to another person He may be a son.
In relation to another He may be wrath and vengeance,
In relation to another, mercy and goodness.
He has thousands of names, yet is One,
Answering to all of His descriptions, yet indescribable.
Every one who seeks names, if he is a man of credulity,
Like thee, remains hopeless and frustrated of his aim.
Why cleavest thou to this mere name of tree,
So that thou art utterly balked and disappointed?
Pass over names and look to qualities,
So that qualities may lead thee to essence!
The differences of sects arise from His names;
When they pierce to His essence they find His peace!"
Mathnavi of Rumi (E.H. Whinfield tr) : The Masnavi Vol 2
Regards Tony
"The Masnavi was started by the Rumi during the final years of his life. He began dictating the first book around the age of 54 around the year 1258 and continued composing verses until his death in 1273." Masnavi - Wikipedia
This is the story of the tree of life.
:A certain wise man related that in Hindustan there was a tree of such wonderful virtue that whosoever ate of its fruit lived forever. Hearing this, a king deputed one of his courtiers to go in quest of it. The courtier accordingly proceeded to Hindustan, and traveled all over that country, inquiring of every one he met where this tree was to be found. Some of these persons professed their entire ignorance, others joked him, and others gave him false information; and, finally, he had to return to his country with his mission unaccomplished. He then, as a last resource, betook himself to the sage who had first spoken of the tree, and begged for further information about it, and the sage replied to him as follows:
The Shaikh laughed, and said to him, "O friend,
This is the tree of knowledge, O knowing one;
Very high, very fine, very expansive,
The very water of life from the circumfluent ocean.
Thou hast run after form, O ill-informed one,
Wherefore thou lackest the fruit of the tree of substance.
Sometimes it is named tree, sometimes sun,
Sometimes lake, and sometimes cloud.
'Tis one, though it has thousands of manifestations;
Its least manifestation is eternal life!
Though 'tis one, it has a thousand manifestations,
The names that fit that one are countless.
That one is to thy personality a father,
In regard to another person He may be a son.
In relation to another He may be wrath and vengeance,
In relation to another, mercy and goodness.
He has thousands of names, yet is One,
Answering to all of His descriptions, yet indescribable.
Every one who seeks names, if he is a man of credulity,
Like thee, remains hopeless and frustrated of his aim.
Why cleavest thou to this mere name of tree,
So that thou art utterly balked and disappointed?
Pass over names and look to qualities,
So that qualities may lead thee to essence!
The differences of sects arise from His names;
When they pierce to His essence they find His peace!"
Mathnavi of Rumi (E.H. Whinfield tr) : The Masnavi Vol 2
Regards Tony
This from the same Book of Rumi
This above story is followed by another anecdote illustrative of the same thesis that attending merely to names and outward forms, rather than to the spirit and essence of religion, leads men into error and delusion.
"Four persons, a Persian, an Arab, a Turk, and a Greek, were traveling together, and received a present of a dirhem. The Persian said he would buy "angur" with it, the Arab said he would buy "inab," while the Turk and the Greek were for buying "uzum" and "astaphil" (staphyle), respectively. Now all these words mean one and the same thing, viz. "grapes;" but, owing to their ignorance of each other's languages, they fancied they each wanted to buy something different, and accordingly a violent quarrel arose between them. At last a wise man who knew all their languages came up and explained to them that they were all wishing for one and the same thing. Mathnavi of Rumi (E.H. Whinfield tr) : The Masnavi Vol 2
I like Rumi
Regards Tony
This above story is followed by another anecdote illustrative of the same thesis that attending merely to names and outward forms, rather than to the spirit and essence of religion, leads men into error and delusion.
"Four persons, a Persian, an Arab, a Turk, and a Greek, were traveling together, and received a present of a dirhem. The Persian said he would buy "angur" with it, the Arab said he would buy "inab," while the Turk and the Greek were for buying "uzum" and "astaphil" (staphyle), respectively. Now all these words mean one and the same thing, viz. "grapes;" but, owing to their ignorance of each other's languages, they fancied they each wanted to buy something different, and accordingly a violent quarrel arose between them. At last a wise man who knew all their languages came up and explained to them that they were all wishing for one and the same thing. Mathnavi of Rumi (E.H. Whinfield tr) : The Masnavi Vol 2
I like Rumi
Regards Tony
Happy birthday Tony, I hope you are having an excellent day with not too much tme on RF. Nice to have you here though.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Afterlife........ They (mostly) all offer an afterlife to humans who (mostly) all crave to hear the reassurance of just that, a life after death.
We humans once buried our dead with their tools, weapons, meals, pets and even their wives, all for their benefit in the afterlife.
On most every continent, through mostly every age, in mostly every culture, we needed to 'know' that we would go on after life.
We believe in that which we desperately need.
Where are the Druids, the Left-hand pathers and all those who follow the almost lost ways? They also probably believe in an afterlife.
But your average giraffe, dog or sparrow doesn't seem to have such a sure destiny, save for the fact that Egyptians certainly wanted cats to prosper in the afterlife, etc etc.
And yet...... and yet...... not one single atom or force within us will be lost after our time. I wonder how many humans, mice, trees and herrings borrowed my atoms and energy before me? Hmmm...... Food for me to think about.