How are these Great Beings explained?

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, me too. In all wars there are definitely two sides. But the situation between India and Pakistan, at least to me, clearly has Pakistan more to blame. Way before partition, Northern India suffered great loss due to Islamic invasions. It just never went the other way. So there is a history of resentment. Over centuries it can lead to some nasty retaliatory stuff for sure.

Partition itself is complicated. In this article, death estimates range from a low of 200 000 to a high of 4 million. That's a whopping difference. https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-during-the-partition-of-India

Today there are still many problems, not quite as widespread. Here's an example.

Hindu Today, Muslim Tomorrow

Hindus in Bangladesh face a lot of persecution as well, similar to Baha'i's in Iran.

I am never clear on any solutions whatsoever. But most certainly genocide isn't one of them. In the Sri Lankan war, the Tamils still refer to the war as genocide, and the Sri Lankan government refers to it as dealing with terrorists.

Even if we were there on the ground, the whole thing would be hard to figure out, because every individual we talked to would have a biased story.

I thought you might be interested in this paper that discusses retributive genocide.

http://faculty.washington.edu/brass/Partition.pdf

It was part of one of the links you included. It appears fair and balanced.

 

[RoaringSilence]

I thought you might be interested in this paper that discusses retributive genocide.

http://faculty.washington.edu/brass/Partition.pdf

It was part of one of the links you included. It appears fair and balanced.

what is your point here ..a country oppressed for 200 years by brits and 800 years by mughals finally got its freedom and some violence happened because the brits decided to part india and exploit the divide ?
or you are saying that all the happenings around shouldn't have effected just cause hindus believe in non voilence so they shouldve just let the country divide in peace and bent over yet again to muslims ..or given the whole country to them instead ..to rule again?

being hindu doesnt mean bend over coz we know you are peaceful.


THERE IS NO STATEMENT IN OUR SCRIPTS THAT SAYS YOU ARE X and the other is a KAFIR AND IS FAIR GAME TO KILL AND BREAK HIS TEMPLES AND IDOLS AND RULE OVER THE DARN DIMIS.

 

[Dawnofhope]

what is your point here ..a country oppressed for 200 years by brits and 800 years by mughals finally got its freedom and some violence happened because the brits decided to part india and exploit the divide ?
or you are saying that all the happenings around shouldn't have effected just cause hindus believe in non voilence so they shouldve just let the country divide in peace and bent over yet again to muslims ..or given the whole country to them instead ..to rule again?

being hindu doesnt mean bend over coz we know you are peaceful.


THERE IS NO STATEMENT IN OUR SCRIPTS THAT SAYS YOU ARE X and the other is a KAFIR AND IS FAIR GAME TO KILL AND BREAK HIS TEMPLES AND IDOLS AND RULE OVER THE DARN DIMIS.

My point is to better understand history and a war I know little about.

There is a saying in my culture that fools rush in, where angels fear to tread.

 

[RoaringSilence]

My point is to better understand history and a war I know little about.

There is a saying in my culture that fools rush in, where angels fear to tread.

well your inclination is on the wrong side , indians are peaceful by default ..but obviously if you squeeze them enough you will find some sort of retaliation. we don't start the fire by nature. we don't pillage or loot others , we welcome others with open arms and let them blend in..India is the only country where jews were welcomed and never attacked .. india welcomed iranians .. persians arabs brits .. we accepted everyone and let them explore and bring in their culture , we mingled with every kind of human who wanted to come in. and did not have a racial bias for them. The fact is that the bias'es were imported to india ..and we exported guru's like budha . we export knowledge and peace and harmony.

please check out india's monuments before mughals came in ...

qutab minar was owned by hindu and teh iron pillar too..mughals captured it.

 

[RoaringSilence]

the best question to ask your angelic self is...

WHY DID THE BAHA"I BUILT TEMPLE IN INDIA AND WHY NEVER IN PAKISTAN ? .. i tell you why.. because you have double standards.. you wouldn't dare to enter pakistan and focus only on converting those who wouldn't kill you for saying what you have to say,. lol

you know the truth that you cannot build stuff in pakistan ..or saudi arabia ..and you know you can't teach peace to the muslims.


Just check the number of Hindus in pakistan post partition in 1947 and present day figures .. from 22% drop to 1% hindus left shrinking hindus ..

And check from 14% muslims in india grew to 28% over 60 years in india...

WHY AND HOW ? why are hindus and other minorities shrinking in a muslim dominated area and why are they rising happy and growing amongst hindus ... tell me why??????

 

[Dawnofhope]

the best question to ask your angelic self is...

WHY DID THE BAHA"I BUILT TEMPLE IN INDIA AND WHY NEVER IN PAKISTAN ? .. i tell you why.. because you have double standards.. you wouldn't dare to enter pakistan and focus only on converting those who wouldn't kill you for saying what you have to say,. lol

you know the truth that you cannot build stuff in pakistan ..or saudi arabia ..and you know you can't teach peace to the muslims.

It is true that Baha'is have had persecution and attempts to erradicate our faith through genocide in Muslim countries only. Persecution of Baha'is continues to this day in numerous Muslim countries.

 

[Vinayaka]

Imagine asking any of the Muslim dominated countries if you can build a Baha'i' temple there. At the same time stare and ponder at the pictures of the one in Delhi.

During the Islamic invasions, an estimated 100 000 Hindu temples were damaged. Much later, an abandoned Mosque in Gujarat was demolished by the local Hindus. Many more Hindu temples in Pakistan and Bangladesh have been destroyed or damaged. Riots ensued by the local Muslims, despite the mosque not being used. Guess which of these two themes gets talked about the most by the western press whenever the India Pakistan or Hindu/Moslem tensions get talked about.

This is becoming like the radical atheists, the fundamentalist Christians, who make sweeping generalisations without attempting to understand individual faiths or circumstances.

But hey, we're used to it. It's like we don't exist.

Imagine what would happen if the following article was about Islam's prophet instead of a Hindu God beloved to all Hindus.

Australian advertising watchdog dismisses pleas to ban a commercial that shows Ganesha eating meat

 

[RoaringSilence]

It is true that Baha'is have had persecution and attempts to erradicate our faith through genocide in Muslim countries only. Persecution of Baha'is continues to this day in numerous Muslim countries.

muslims are peaceful people coz islam = peace ..you guys mustve done something to provoke the cute muslims. Baha'i = trouble . coz muslim is always One true victim.

 

[Dawnofhope]

what is your point here ..a country oppressed for 200 years by brits and 800 years by mughals finally got its freedom and some violence happened because the brits decided to part india and exploit the divide ?
or you are saying that all the happenings around shouldn't have effected just cause hindus believe in non voilence so they shouldve just let the country divide in peace and bent over yet again to muslims ..or given the whole country to them instead ..to rule again?

being hindu doesnt mean bend over coz we know you are peaceful.


THERE IS NO STATEMENT IN OUR SCRIPTS THAT SAYS YOU ARE X and the other is a KAFIR AND IS FAIR GAME TO KILL AND BREAK HIS TEMPLES AND IDOLS AND RULE OVER THE DARN DIMIS.

New Zealand is a British Colony too and formed part of what was arguably the largest Empire ever. The New Zealand Government has gone through a judicial process with Maori tribes to compensate for violations of the treaty of Waitangi. This was a treaty signed by hundreds of Maori Chiefs and the British Government in 1840. Unfortuantely the provisions of the treaty were frequently violated and the Maori lost much of their land as a result.

 

[Vinayaka]

It is true that Baha'is have had persecution and attempts to erradicate our faith through genocide in Muslim countries only. Persecution of Baha'is continues to this day in numerous Muslim countries.

Now you're beginning to point fingers in right directions.

 

[Vinayaka]

New Zealand is a British Colony too and formed part of what was arguably the largest Empire ever. The New Zealand Government has gone through a judicial process with Maori tribes to compensate for violations of the treaty of Waitangi. This was a treaty signed by hundreds of Maori Chiefs and the British Government in 1840. Unfortuantely the provisions of the treaty were frequently violated and the Maori lost much of their land as a result.

That is a poor comparison. Were the Maori captured as slaves? Were they forcibly taken away as indentured labour? (The avoidance of reality - a term for slavery) New Zealand is insignificant compared to India or Africa. Yes bad stuff happened, but not anywhere near to the same scale.

The comparison, in terms of scale, is the same as comparing the Bahai to Islam in terms of affect on the world today.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Now you're beginning to point fingers in right directions.

I think it is very difficult to understand the reality of living in another country. India has this long standing association with the Muslims going back many centuries when Islam invaded and colonised large portions of your lands. Its not hard to imagine the conflict and oppression of one power dominating another in those times.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think it is very difficult to understand the reality of living in another country. India has this long standing association with the Muslims going back many centuries when Islam invaded and colonised large portions of your lands. Its not hard to imagine the conflict and oppression of one power dominating another in those times.

I'm Canadian. The only reason I know anything at all about this is that it interests me, and I feel it somewhat my duty to stick up for Hinduism. But stuff happens all the time. Hindus are finally learning to stand up, and to quote "We don't have to take it any more."

So I follow all the stories of persecution. The press and history is incredibly biased, in my view. We're persecuted in Bangladesh, in Pakistan, and mocked in many western countries. But the world is slowly changing for the better.

So if the Baha'i' feels persecuted, all I can say is 'Get used to it."

 

[Dawnofhope]

That is a poor comparison. Were the Maori captured as slaves? Were they forcibly taken away as indentured labour? (The avoidance of reality - a term for slavery) New Zealand is insignificant compared to India or Africa. Yes bad stuff happened, but not anywhere near to the same scale.

The comparison, in terms of scale, is the same as comparing the Bahai to Islam in terms of affect on the world today.

It is interesting that the there was an actual treaty. Perhaps more enlightened times unlike India that was colonised earlier.

However the Maori people suffered greatly through colonisation, the loss of their lands, the introduction of diseases such as small pox. Then Maoris were not allowed to speak their own language at schools so their language almost died out. Maybe they weren't slaves becaue at that stage slavery was on its way out throughout the empire, but there are plenty of ways the a peoples and culture can be afflicted through colonisation without slavery.

 

[Vinayaka]

It is interesting that the there was an actual treaty. Perhaps more enlightened times unlike India that was colonised earlier.

However the Maori people suffered greatly through colonisation, the loss of their lands, the introduction of diseases such as small pox. Then Maoris were not allowed to speak their own language at schools so their language almost died out. Maybe they weren't slaves becaue at that stage slavery was on its way out throughout the empire, but there are plenty of ways the a peoples and culture can be afflicted through colonisation without slavery.

New Zealand situation is much like Canada's. There was intentional spread of smallpox here too. Genocide attempt. Same for all the languages, and residential schools. The treaties, although signed, weren't at first understood at all by one side. The indigenous folks had no idea of the actual implications.

And then there was the overt racism from the settlers. Brutal. My father hired a local Metis (mixed genetic ancestry of French and native) farm hand just to tick off all the racist neighbours, who not coincidentally were mostly Christian.

Our situations were not at all like India.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I'm Canadian. The only reason I know anything at all about this is that it interests me, and I feel it somewhat my duty to stick up for Hinduism. But stuff happens all the time. Hindus are finally learning to stand up, and to quote "We don't have to take it any more."

So I follow all the stories of persecution. The press and history is incredibly biased, in my view. We're persecuted in Bangladesh, in Pakistan, and mocked in many western countries. But the world is slowly changing for the better.

So if the Baha'i' feels persecuted, all I can say is 'Get used to it."

The world has become a global village, but we have much to learn about living in harmony with each other, and better understanding where each of us has come from.

In a sense it would be easy if the Baha'i Faith just faded into the obscurity. I doubt that it will, and as we go from strength to strength the persecution will intensify for certain.

Its good to be meeting people from different faiths and backgrounds on RF.I don't have a chance to talk to many Hindus or Muslims about faith and history in my day to day life.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It was fine , we infact made an impression on some muslim rulers who were shocked to learn about hinduism ..dara shiko took vedas out of india into persia.. in the end wisdom prevailed and not all of us converted to islam..only the ones who were in entertainment in kings courts did ...that's why you see most actors and musicians from indian sub continent are muslim ..

and some natural a s s lickers converted .which is why pakistan is a beggar country survives on aid and IMF loans without caring about even being able to make a needle in their country. Prime trash of hindus converted ..and that prime trash currently =pakistan / terroriststan


rest india remained wise ..and we hope our teachings will prevail for times to come. no matter how many temples you destroy...you cannot kill the ideas of hinduism.

I hope to visit India one day to see Hinduism as practised in it many diverse forms.

I spent 3 months in Labasa, a predominantly Indian town in Fiji for 3 months when I was doing my medical training.

Labasa - Wikipedia

I found the Indian people very hospitable and friendly. I think many of them were not too happy in Fiji and wanted to escape to Australia and New Zealand and hoped I could help them. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way in New Zealand. It is not who you know to get into NZ but what skills you have that you would benefit our country.

 

[RoaringSilence]

The world has become a global village, but we have much to learn about living in harmony with each other, and better understanding where each of us has come from.

In a sense it would be easy if the Baha'i Faith just faded into the obscurity. I doubt that it will, and as we go from strength to strength the persecution will intensify for certain.

Its good to be meeting people from different faiths and backgrounds on RF.I don't have a chance to talk to many Hindus or Muslims about faith and history in my day to day life.

im happy if you convert muslims to baha'i.. honestly that would be a pleasant sight .. rest idc tbh.. rest are fine how they are, but i dont think you guys realize but you can actually benefit, if you went into countries like pakistan.. coz there is a need for a hip religion close to islam.. the demand is in upper middle class only ..so you will have success if you know how to play your cards right.. and that class in pak is dieing for something that would get rid of the tags they have into something acceptable like baha'i. start marketing and see the results for yourself..

 

[Dawnofhope]

Imagine what would happen if the following article was about Islam's prophet instead of a Hindu God beloved to all Hindus.

Australian advertising watchdog dismisses pleas to ban a commercial that shows Ganesha eating meat

I agree that the Muslims would take it pretty badly if you depicted Muhammad or Allah on one of these meat board commercials.

 

[Dawnofhope]

im happy if you convert muslims to baha'i.. honestly that would be a pleasant sight .. rest idc tbh.. rest are fine how they are, but i dont think you guys realize but you can actually benefit, if you went into countries like pakistan.. coz there is a need for a hip religion close to islam.. the demand is in upper middle class only ..so you will have success if you know how to play your cards right.. and that class in pak is dieing for something that would get rid of the tags they have into something acceptable like baha'i. start marketing and see the results for yourself..

The Baha'i Faith is well established and doing well in Pakistan. We have freedom to practice our religion there.

Bahá'í Faith in Pakistan - Wikipedia