How are these Great Beings explained?

[InvestigateTruth]

You totally missed my whole point, or ignored it. The world's major disunity was caused by Christianity and Islam, which were more recent. Progressive revelation does not explain that.

I think i did address your point. Maybe it was not clear to you.
So, i will add something.
You are saying if, the Religions were progressive, we should have seen less wars caused by later Religions, such as Islam and Christianity than Buddhism or Hinduism.
My reply: those wars were not caused by Religion of Islam or Christianity. It was caused by adherents of those Religions who outwardly called themselves Muslim or Christian, but in reality they were following their own corrupted desire. They used religion to dominate people; therefor abusing Religion of God.
Whenever a new Revelation appeared it was the cause of civilization. We can for example look at Islam. When it appeared, it caused a golden age for the Muslims.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia
The advancement among Muslims, then farther influenced Europe and cause all people of earth to advance in technology and sciences.
The Holy Scriptures such as Quran teaches that, every people has a period. When their period ends their Spiritual death comes. For Muslims, that period was 1000 years as prophesied in Quran and Hadith. When the spiritual death of a people comes, a new Manifestation comes to revive the Religion of God, thus the Bab and Bahaullah appeared, whose appearance caused a new civilization, marked by industrial revolutions in 19th century.

 

[Vinayaka]

I went to a Pure Land Buddhist Temple (they give reverence to Amida Buddha). I don't know what they practice, though, since I never gone to a ceremony. They do chant Amida Buddha.

We chanted The Buddha's name and the bodhisattvas that help us follow The Buddha's teachings.


True. What we contribute brings good merits and helps create better karma. I wonder if the laity carry (or represent?) of the lineage once they are initiated or is it only carried through the monks as we help them and the people? (in Hinduism?)

I was also wondering how much do the monks work with the laity. Since I can't always go to Dhamma talks, I was also reading online that if I wanted to meet with one of the monks (as she offered) that it would be advisable to help pay for transportation, maybe lunch, or so have you since they don't ask. However, I don't know how similar Zen Mahayana Buddhist are similar to Tibetan Buddhist religious equitique.

Yeah. I can see why you are grateful.

Yes it takes awhile to get used to being around monks. As they are technically beggars, get used to paying for things. In my Hindu sampradaya, we interact a little bit but not that much. Just on certain projects. For example, I helped write a book, and the co-ordinator was a monk, so I had to communicate some with him. If we visit the monastery, we see them around, but we would rarely chat it up, unless they initiate that.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Who says Hindus of my school and others aren't using wisdom of God? In Hinduism, it's all God. God permeates everything. Wise men are of God, and so are you and me. It's just that we don't believe in manifestations, prophets, and most especially, infallibility. There are hundreds of saints and sages that were at least as wise or wiser than your so called 'manifestations'. Why pick 9 select ones and call them special? Besides that, from their own writings, some of the stuff some of them said certainly didn't make them very special, let alone infallible.

When we say 'Manifestation of God', it is not just a term or name. In Bahai view, there is only One God, who chooses to Manifest Himself among us, from time to time, and speak directly with people, by being among them. When God appears, He shows the sign of divinity, so people may know Him. For instance He is All-knowing. His knowledge is not through learning from others. He knows all that has happened in the past without learning from books or others, and knows about future events. Bahaullah was an example when God appeared among people, and showed these signs. He also wrote many books and tablets to response questions of people, which are about 17000 tablets. His infalliblity and wisdom is clear to us, from His tablets. No one could prove any errors in them. They have convinced many people who have investigated them with a pure and unbiased heart.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think i did address your point. Maybe it was not clear to you.
So, i will add something.
You are saying if, the Religions were progressive, we should have seen less wars caused by later Religions, such as Islam and Christianity than Buddhism or Hinduism.
My reply: those wars were not caused by Religion of Islam or Christianity. It was caused by adherents of those Religions who outwardly called themselves Muslim or Christian, but in reality they were following their own corrupted desire. They used religion to dominate people; therefor abusing Religion of God.
Whenever a new Revelation appeared it was the cause of civilization. We can for example look at Islam. When it appeared, it caused a golden age for the Muslims.

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia
The advancement among Muslims, then farther influenced Europe and cause all people of earth to advance in technology and sciences.
The Holy Scriptures such as Quran teaches that, every people has a period. When their period ends their Spiritual death comes. For Muslims, that period was 1000 years as prophesied in Quran and Hadith. When the spiritual death of a people comes, a new Manifestation comes to revive the Religion of God, thus the Bab and Bahaullah appeared, whose appearance caused a new civilization, marked by industrial revolutions in 19th century.

Yes, that is the Baha'i' belief. Lots of religions use the idea that the other guy isn't a true ________. In Christianity, some churches think that their church is the only true religion. Certainly the radical elements of any Abrahamic faith think they are the true ones. It's a foreign concept to me as we don't have that in Hinduism. We're much more tolerant of differing beliefs. Most of the stuff you guys talk about like unity and non-violence has existed within Hinduism continually for the last 6000 years. So for us, your stuff isn't any distinct progression at all ... a continuation ... debatedly. You are free to believe it's all new ideas though, as it is new to Abrahamism.

 

[Vinayaka]

When we say 'Manifestation of God', it is not just a term or name. In Bahai view, there is only One God, who chooses to Manifest Himself among us, from time to time, and speak directly with people, by being among them. When God appears, He shows the sign of divinity, so people may know Him. For instance He is All-knowing. His knowledge is not through learning from others. He knows all that has happened in the past without learning from books or others, and knows about future events. Bahaullah was an example when God appeared among people, and showed these signs. He also wrote many books and tablets to response questions of people, which are about 17000 tablets. His infalliblity and wisdom is clear to us, from His tablets. No one could prove any errors in them. They have convinced many people who have investigated them with a pure and unbiased heart.

Yes, we know the Baha'i' beliefs. He declared himself infallible, so you believe him. I would also think that that would nmean he could have made his physical body last a miilliion years if he would have chosen to. Apparently he didn't make that choice.

Tons of people have written far more than your prophet did. Sri Aurobindo is an example.

Get Complete Works of Sri Aurobindo | Auroville But you wouldn't have heard of him, as he's not Baha'i', he's Hindu.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Tons of people have written far more than your prophet did. Sri Aurobindo is an example.

Get Complete Works of Sri Aurobindo | Auroville But you wouldn't have heard of him, as he's not Baha'i', he's Hindu.

Though that is impressive amount if writing there is no person that has put to record the Amount of Revelation that Baha'u'llah has done. Are you aware Baha'u'llah has over 100 Volumes of Writings?

Though it would not matter if He had not given us one Word on papér, as that would not alter who He Is, it is substantially more than 37 volumes.

This would be interesting ; "The Supramental Manifestation upon Earth. (Most of these works were formerly published together under the title The Supramental Manifestation upon Earth and Other Writings.)"

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Though that is impressive amount if writing there is no person that has put to record the Amount of Revelation that Baha'u'llah has done. Are you aware Baha'u'llah has over 100 Volumes of Writings?

Though it would not matter if He had not given us one Word on papér, as that would not alter who He Is, it is substantially more than 37 volumes.

This would be interesting ; "The Supramental Manifestation upon Earth. (Most of these works were formerly published together under the title The Supramental Manifestation upon Earth and Other Writings.)"

Regards Tony

Yes, of course, Tony. He most likely wrote more than all other holy people combined. He's the greatest prophet to have ever lived, after all. Indeed he was the greatest manifestation of God. Yes, that is the Baha'i' belief. Such resplendent humility after all. You have every right to be very proud.

But to get to a more succinct point. There cam be more knowledge in a moment of silence that in any amount of books. It would be all about quality, not quantity. But if you want to feel proud, go ahead. There is no stopping you. But then Hinduism, as I've said many times before, isn't a book religion, it's an experience religion.

Interesting esay here: God Help the Spiritual Writer

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, of course, Tony. He most likely wrote more than all other holy people combined. He's the greatest prophet to have ever lived, after all. Indeed he was the greatest manifestation of God. Yes, that is the Baha'i' belief. Such resplendent humility after all. You have every right to be very proud.

But to get to a more succinct point. There cam be more knowledge in a moment of silence that in any amount of books. It would be all about quality, not quantity. But if you want to feel proud, go ahead. There is no stopping you. But then Hinduism, as I've said many times before, isn't a book religion, it's an experience religion.

So when it is shown your argument is not sound and based in Fact, then the next step is to turn the discussion into other accusations

Lets hope in a moment of silence that the knowledge of Justice in Truth, is the light that is found.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

So when it is shown your argument is not sound and based in Fact, then the next step is to turn the discussion into other accusations

Lets hope in a moment of silence that the knowledge of Justice in Truth, is the light that is found.

Your faith in Baha'u'llah is based in fact? To be honest, I don't think anyone has cared enough to actually compare the length of writings of various scholars throughout history. Anyone sincere about looking for truth in words will look for quality. Some of the greatest books have been short. As I've mentioned many times, Hindus don't find their truth in words, but in the deepest stratas of non-mind found within meditation.

As for 'humility' as our mutual friend Carlita had noticed earlier, it seems whenever anyone disagrees with some point of yours, you jump to the defense, when it's not necessary at all.

Edited: Even within your own Abrahamic paradigm, there is a striking example of this. Apparently Christ didn't write anything.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Anyone sincere about looking for truth in words will look for quality. Some of the greatest books have been short. As I've mentioned many times, Hindus don't find their truth in words, but in the deepest stratas of non-mind found within meditation.

Yes it is quality that we are looking for.

Thus we do not base Meditation on our flawed idea's, we base them on what God has actually said.

Regards Tony

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, we know the Baha'i' beliefs. He declared himself infallible, so you believe him. I would also think that that would nmean he could have made his physical body last a miilliion years if he would have chosen to. Apparently he didn't make that choice.

Tons of people have written far more than your prophet did. Sri Aurobindo is an example.

Get Complete Works of Sri Aurobindo | Auroville But you wouldn't have heard of him, as he's not Baha'i', he's Hindu.

So, why do you think the quality of the writings of Sri Aurobindo is better than Bahaullah? Would you like to elaborate how you would determine that?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Your faith in Baha'u'llah is based in fact?

It is based on what has been made available from God. There is no better proof than Gods Manifestations.

We can also look for God in all things.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

So, why do you think the quality of the writings of Sri Aurobindo is better than Bahaullah? Would you like to elaborate how you would determine that?

I never said anything about quality, it was about quantity, and just one example, just refuting extravagant claims. But that's most of this thread, isn't it? Refuting extravagant claims.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hindus don't find their truth in words, but in the deepest stratas of non-mind found within meditation.

Though it is good to ponder the meaning of life and important to do so, in the end it must leed to a life of deeds and not just words and thoughts.

That is what is so powerful about the Word given by Gods Messengers, they are the First to live a life in Deeds and Service.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Yes it is quality that we are looking for.

Thus we do not base Meditation on our flawed idea's, we base them on what God has actually said.

Yes, Tony, that is what the Baha'i' believe. Much of Baha'u'llah's writings, from what little I know, were about the politics of the day, written in flowery poetic language. I see no reason why God would insist on being flowery, or be concerned about the politics of the day, but it seems he was.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I never said anything about quality, it was about quantity, and just one example, just refuting extravagant claims. But that's most of this thread, isn't it? Refuting extravagant claims.

You showed an example; Sri Aurobindo. he has 37 volumes of books, but we showed you Bahaullah has 100 volumes, which you admitted it is more. Then you changed your argument, saying, it is not about quantity, it is about quality. Did you not? Just look at your own posts. Are we communicating properly?!

 

[Vinayaka]

Though it is good to ponder the meaning of life and important to do so, in the end it must leed to a life of deeds and not just words and thoughts.

That is what is so powerful about the Word given by Gods Messengers, they are the First to live a life in Deeds and Service.

Charya (good deeds) is the first or the 4 progressive stages in Saiva Siddhanta. (the name for my philosophical school) Without it we are nothing, and no progression can be made. The next stages are kriya, yoga, and jnana, in that order. These progressive stages are over lifetimes. Charya is passed down in Hindu communities by the elders, and the wise, who set wonderful examples.

Very different paradigms.

 

[Vinayaka]

You showed an example; Sri Aurobindo. he has 37 volumes of books, but we showed you Bahaullah has 100 volumes, which you admitted it is more. Then you changed your argument, saying, it is not about quantity, it is about quality. Did you not? Just look at your own posts. Are we communicating properly?!

I didn't admit anything. It would all depend on the size of each volume. That's basic math. I used to play a game to teach my grade 4s. I'd say 'Billy had 10 coins, and Bobby has only 1 coin, who has the most coins?" Believe it or not, some kids fell for it, but most figured out the false logic. It also depends on the style of writing. Often Baha'u'llah, from the little I've read, uses 100 words when 10 would suffice.

Much of the debate here is to refute the claims of people who seem to enjoy defending their faith, even though it's unnecessary.

 

[Vinayaka]

So, why do you think the quality of the writings of Sri Aurobindo is better than Bahaullah? Would you like to elaborate how you would determine that?

I am totally unfamiliar with Sri Aurobindo's writings, and never said anything about the quality at all. It was an example of a prolific writer. Are we communicating, or are you purposely putting words in my mouth?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Tony why can't you discuss and learn without insult? (these questions below are not a rethorical question)

Thus we do not base Meditation on our flawed idea's, we base them on what God has actually said.

What flawed ideas are you referring to?

Though it is good to ponder the meaning of life and important to do so, in the end it must lead to a life of deeds and not just words and thoughts.

Why would you say "not just thoughts" (it's an indirect statement saying Vinakaya does not do anything in his faith only sit and meditate)?

Maybe it's more productive to ask "do you feel that the truth is only through meditation or is there deeds involved as well?

Although this answer has been repeated, it's a more productive, positive, and peaceful way to discuss each other's beliefs not just your own. Would Bahaullah approach this in the way you did or would he have a more peaceful perspective about this?