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How are these Great Beings explained?

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Well, it is kind of difficult to keep track of a body that isn't there. But I digress...

Grave, not body, and other "special" places, however several people claiming to be the Jewish Messiah, and rabble-rousing, were killed by the Romans.

So he could have been another. Two of the names of his disciples link to guerrilla fighters trying to throw off the Roman yoke.

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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
"Why did the gospel accounts say he was seen alive and talked with the disciples, and with them, was touched by Thomas to prove he wasn't a ghost but had flesh and bone?" Then what is "Abdul'baha's explanation"? I've never seen any Baha'i give a quote that addressed the verses about Jesus being alive and saying "touch me and see that I'm flesh and bone and not a ghost."

This is the Last Supper explanation, I am out at the moment.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 97-99

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I'd say more: Tony, I like the fish but I know you like similarities, so let's split. We can eat half fish and half burger or we can order something we both would like that we both have in common in regards to taste buds.

I look at the menu sometimes but after awhile, I figure I know what I want so instead of talking about me, I ask the other person-I learn better that way. Doesn't change my belief. I just don't think about me all the time. No menu. Just me and my buds.

I am more than happy if you choose the Fish.

After all we are at peace having the meal of life.

Regards Tony
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I am more than happy if you choose the Fish.

After all we are at peace having the meal of life.

Regards Tony

Come on now. Every meal I pick you'll eat???

I mean, I learn from you best if you have your own meals. My friend said she knew everything about a person by how they ate their food. That would be weird if she ate like me, have the same plate as me, etc. What can she learn from me if she is, well, me?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
That's because they're open and honest about their agenda. It's the sneaks we Hindus really have to watch out for. The slow cancerous ones hide their agenda really well until it's too late. Building of schools, friendship evangelism, not telling the whole truth. The goal is the same ... convert the entire planet to their version of their faith. Some of them do fundraising in the west without telling their donors what they're really up to either. I find it all quite unethical.

I don't know who these sneaky ones are. Maybe you feel the Baha'is come into that category.

The Baha'is are open about their beliefs and our writings are available on the internet for all to see. Only Baha'is can donate to the Baha'i fund, so if we are building a Baha'i school, it is the Baha'is that are paying for it.

I ran children's classes in my locality for about 5 years and had an open communication with all parents about what was being taught. All parents were free to drop in at any time, contribute to the education, and even avail themselves of the opportunity to train to become teachers of classes. We taught the virtues such as truthfulness, courtesy, compassion that are common to all the religions. The curriculum provided positive education about Abraham, Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Muhammad, and Jesus giving an outline of their life story and teachings. We also taught specifically about the Bab, Baha'u'llah, and Abdu'l-Baha usually with stories that emphasised themes and values that were universal. There were games, songs, drawing, and memorisation of Holy Writings.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Come on now. Every meal I pick you'll eat???

I mean, I learn from you best if you have your own meals. My friend said she knew everything about a person by how they ate their food. That would be weird if she ate like me, have the same plate as me, etc. What can she learn from me if she is, well, me?

Jingos Carlita. I already told you I have the Lot Burger :) It has a piece of fish on it already.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
How are the great beings explained? They are from one God. That is the helping hand offered by the Baha'i view.

You now can use this hand, or choose any of the other hands offered, or choose to get back up your way.

From the hand offered, it just waits to see if you still need the offer.

Regards Tony
Or, in different places at different times a spiritual person lived and said some things, and then legends and myths were told about that person. You do think there are some mythical/fictional stories about Jesus, Muhammad, Krishna and the others don't you? If so, then why not in the "official", supposedly from God book about them? Did Jesus walk on water, or was that a made up embellishment? Or, were all the gospel writer so smart and in tune with God that they wrote in symbolic language? Unfortunately, they forgot to tell the rest of the believers it was symbolic, and they went around telling people that Jesus walked on water... and that other thing he allegedly did... rise from the dead.

The books I've read about the early Christians say they believed he rose physically from the dead. So why did their teachers, the apostles and other disciples that supposedly witnessed the risen Jesus, teach them that if it wasn't true? How could they teach that knowing that some of them took and hide the body and spread the rumor about his resurrection? How could Baha'u'llah and his son, 2000 years later, say it is true but only symbolically... that his risen body is the believers? No, either as fantastic as it seems, he did rise from the dead. Or, it's all a big hoax. The symbolic explanation does not make sense with what the written accounts in the gospels say.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Or, in different places at different times a spiritual person lived and said some things, and then legends and myths were told about that person. You do think there are some mythical/fictional stories about Jesus, Muhammad, Krishna and the others don't you? If so, then why not in the "official", supposedly from God book about them? Did Jesus walk on water, or was that a made up embellishment? Or, were all the gospel writer so smart and in tune with God that they wrote in symbolic language? Unfortunately, they forgot to tell the rest of the believers it was symbolic, and they went around telling people that Jesus walked on water... and that other thing he allegedly did... rise from the dead.

The books I've read about the early Christians say they believed he rose physically from the dead. So why did their teachers, the apostles and other disciples that supposedly witnessed the risen Jesus, teach them that if it wasn't true? How could they teach that knowing that some of them took and hide the body and spread the rumor about his resurrection? How could Baha'u'llah and his son, 2000 years later, say it is true but only symbolically... that his risen body is the believers? No, either as fantastic as it seems, he did rise from the dead. Or, it's all a big hoax. The symbolic explanation does not make sense with what the written accounts in the gospels say.

In the end I went another way with this. This is because I like that the Jehovah Witnesses have done a lot of good research on this subject and have given quite a reasonable explanation on this subject.

I thought, why not let other dedicated Christians answer this question for you? It shows the explanations given by Baha'u'llah can permeate the mind of others. Given the way the Jehovah Witnesses also sprung from the 1844 date of the Return of Christ, I can offer no better but form a Christian source. It is not fully in tune with Baha'i thought, but it shows that one can be a Christian and get another meaning from the same scriptures. As Baha'u'llah also offers, a different Frame of reference.

Jesus’ Body—Was It Flesh or Spirit After His Resurrection? | Bible Questions

I have had many a chat with friends from the JW Movement, I say to them with their Interpretation we are so close, yet so far still :) My friend here in Normanton so wants me to embrace JW, so I can join them in the life to come.

Consider they are very Literal in their Interpretation of many aspects of the Bible, but in this matter have gone with the Spiritual.

Regards Tony
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
...

"...I swear by My life! This Revelation is endowed with such a power that it will act as the lodestone for all nations and kindreds of the earth. Should one pause to meditate attentively he would recognize that no place is there, nor can there be, for anyone to flee to.
In such manner hath the Kitáb-i-Aqdas been revealed that it attracteth and embraceth all the divinely appointed Dispensations. Blessed those who peruse it. Blessed those who apprehend it. Blessed those who meditate upon it. Blessed those who ponder its meaning. So vast is its range that it hath encompassed all men ere their recognition of it. Ere long will its sovereign power, its pervasive influence and the greatness of its might be manifested on earth. Verily, thy God is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed. Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 195-201 -

Problem is that they are another patriarchal religion deciding which are divinely appointed Dispensations.

Another Polytheists and Atheists get to go to hell religion?

Thus, O inhabitants of my orchard, protect yourselves from the wicked poisonous breath and void breeze which is socializing with the polytheists and the unaware (ghāfil). `Abd al-Ḥamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī, Mā’idiy-i āsimānī, vol. 8, p. 39.

“The utterance of the [book or religion] of Bayān in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`lā (meaning the Bāb) was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it,” `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb (Egypt: 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 266.

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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Take your time, I heading out 'til next Monday. I'll check back them. So mainly the answer to Jesus saying to touch him and see that it is he and that he has flesh and bone and is not a ghost. The Ishmael and Isaac question is very important also. Anything else you can add to that too will be appreciated.

From memory I am not going to find specifics on what you asked, it was reference to this talk that I offered before, but I think you have most likely read it;

"THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

Question. -- What is the meaning of Christ's resurrection after three days?

Answer. -- The resurrections of the Divine Manifestations are not of the body. All Their states, Their conditions, Their acts, the things They have established, Their teachings, Their expressions, Their parables and Their instructions have a spiritual and divine signification, and have no connection with material things. For example, there is the subject of Christ's coming from heaven: it is clearly stated in many places in the Gospel that the Son of man came from heaven, He is in heaven, and He will go to heaven. So in chapter 6, verse 38, of the Gospel of John it is written: "For I came down from heaven"; and also in verse 42 we find: "And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?" Also in John, chapter 3, verse 13: "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."
Observe that it is said, "The Son of man is in heaven," while at that time Christ was on earth. Notice also that it is said that Christ came from heaven, though He came from the womb of Mary, and His body was born of Mary. It is clear, then, that when it is said that the Son of man is come from heaven, this has not an outward but an inward signification; it is a spiritual, not a material, fact. The meaning is that though, apparently, Christ was born from the womb of Mary, in reality He came from heaven, from the center of the Sun of Reality, from the Divine World, and the Spiritual Kingdom. And as it has become evident that Christ came from the spiritual heaven of the Divine Kingdom, therefore, His disappearance under the earth for three days has an inner signification and is not an outward fact. In the same way, His resurrection from the interior of the earth is also symbolical; it is a spiritual and divine fact, and not material; and likewise His ascension to heaven is a spiritual and not material ascension.
Beside these explanations, it has been established and proved by science that the visible heaven is a limitless area, void and empty, where innumerable stars and planets revolve.
Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ's resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.
Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it." Abdu'l-Baha : Some Answered Questions
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
YHVH, Gods Greatest Name. God is above all names thus YHVH is the combination of all Gods Names, its numerical value = 8, when written as pronounced, it has the numerical value of 9, the highest and most perfect number.

Thus the Greatest Name if God YHVH is also shown as Baha = 9, "The "Glory of God", or "Glory of the Lord". The New Name come in the station if the Father as promissed by Christ.

Sorry but that is absolute baloney.

You folks don't even know what the actual name is to make that numerical value.

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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Problem is that they are another patriarchal religion deciding which are divinely appointed Dispensations.

Another Polytheists and Atheists get to go to hell religion?

Thus, O inhabitants of my orchard, protect yourselves from the wicked poisonous breath and void breeze which is socializing with the polytheists and the unaware (ghāfil). `Abd al-Ḥamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī, Mā’idiy-i āsimānī, vol. 8, p. 39.

“The utterance of the [book or religion] of Bayān in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`lā (meaning the Bāb) was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it,” `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb (Egypt: 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 266.

*

These quotes are from unauthorized sites and translations.

For future reference any writing from here can be quoted - Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith

We can then discuss any issues you may have.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sorry but that is absolute baloney.

You folks don't even know what the actual name is to make that numerical value.

*

We did not need to, those that did, already had done.

"....The personal Four-Letter Name of God is represented by the letters YHVH in Hebrew. The correct pronunciation of the letter Y in Hebrew is "Yode" or "Yud". The letter H is pronounced "Hey" or "Hay", and the letter V is pronounced "Vav". Therefore the letters are correctly pronounced "Yode Hey Vav Hey"

The numerical value of the letters of The Name YHVH equals 26 (8). The numerical value of The Name as it is written out "Yode Hey Vav Hey", is 45 (9)...."

The Names of God

Regards Tony
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
These quotes are from unauthorized sites and translations.

For future reference any writing from here can be quoted - Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith

We can then discuss any issues you may have.

Regards Tony

Baloney - you try to turn aside such. Post the accepted translation.

I told you I attended Baha'i gatherings. I have first hand knowledge of this.

The religion does NOT accept the religions of Polytheists. Their prophets, etc., are not considered divinely appointed Dispensations.

*
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
We did not need to, those that did, already had done.

"....The personal Four-Letter Name of God is represented by the letters YHVH in Hebrew. The correct pronunciation of the letter Y in Hebrew is "Yode" or "Yud". The letter H is pronounced "Hey" or "Hay", and the letter V is pronounced "Vav". Therefore the letters are correctly pronounced "Yode Hey Vav Hey"

The numerical value of the letters of The Name YHVH equals 26 (8). The numerical value of The Name as it is written out "Yode Hey Vav Hey", is 45 (9)...."

The Names of God

Regards Tony

Only problem there - is that it is a Tetragrammaton, not a name.

Forgot to add that that site says the numerical value is 26 and 45, they do not break them down from there.

*
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Baloney - you try to turn aside such. Post the accepted translation.

I told you I attended Baha'i gatherings. I have first hand knowledge of this.

The religion does NOT accept the religions of Polytheists. Their prophets, etc., are not considered divinely appointed Dispensations. *

These posts reflect the intent within them. I need not add fuel to the fire you much desire.

I wish you all the best, much health and happiness in life.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Problem is that they are another patriarchal religion deciding which are divinely appointed Dispensations.

Another Polytheists and Atheists get to go to hell religion?

Thus, O inhabitants of my orchard, protect yourselves from the wicked poisonous breath and void breeze which is socializing with the polytheists and the unaware (ghāfil). `Abd al-Ḥamīd Ishrāq Khāwarī, Mā’idiy-i āsimānī, vol. 8, p. 39.

“The utterance of the [book or religion] of Bayān in the day of the appearance of his Highness A`lā (meaning the Bāb) was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it,” `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb (Egypt: 1330 AH), vol. 2, p. 266.

*

Anyone can post anything and claim it to be from the Baha'i writings.

Any Baha'i remotely acquainted with the baha'i writings and its spirit can readily detect that you are not quoting from authentic Baha'i writings.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
How could one scribe cause a permanent change? Wasn't there several Torah's being used with new being made by several scribes?

Going back that far we don't know. We take it on Faith that it was Ismael.

Just like we are told that Buddha originally taught the oneness of God yet over time His original Teachings became replaced. So we go with what the latest Manifestation says because we believe He is infallible and knows everything.

O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing.

The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. (Tablet to Shah of Persia)
 
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