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Featured How are these Great Beings explained?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by loverofhumanity, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Man! You should have warned us 7,821 posts ago. :p
     
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  2. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Anybody can claim he/she has experience with God. But when we are discussing to prove a belief or word is true, we need verifiable evidence, otherwise anybody can claim he had experience with God. Such things are merely sayings, with no verifiable evidence.
    Bahais believe in Bahaullah, because He based the validity of His claim, on verifiable evidences.
    I have already pointed out in this thread, what those verifiable evidences are.
     
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  3. RoaringSilence

    RoaringSilence Active Member

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    i like this girl already.
     
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  4. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    I found this Talk of Abdlulbaha where an Indian mentioned telling the world about Krishna.

    The talk is on Love

    "An Indian said to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá: ‘My aim in life is to transmit as far as in me lies the message of Krishna to the world.’

    ‘Abdu’l-Bahá said: The Message of Krishna is the message of love. All God’s prophets have brought the message of love. None has ever thought that war and hate are good. Every one agrees in saying that love and kindness are best...."

    The remainder of that talk - Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 35-39

    Regards Tony
     
  5. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Consider that your spiritual eyes lend you a Baha'i interpretation of the book, Christian spiritual eyes grant them a Christian interpretation of the book. And my spiritual eyes tell me that its great that technology is advanced enough to stop the incredible wastage of potential toilet paper each printing of that book represents.

    Which a;so tells you that spiritual eyes are nothing more than a way for a person to validate an interpretation of the text that doesn't fit so great. Or in your words a man trying to control a message.
     
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  6. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    In your reply, it reflects what is contained in Isaiah 5 and how the story of humanity, to date, has unfolded.

    In this, The 'Lord of Hosts' is Baha'u'llah.

    Isaiah 5:4 is a good meditation; "What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it? Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?

    It is foretold "The Lord Will Use Another Nation To Punish His People", they will reject the 'Lord of Hosts'.

    Isaiah 5:24 " Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes stubble And dry grass collapses into the flame, So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust; For they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel."

    Baha'u'llah does not Need to Control the Message, He is the Message.

    Regards Tony


     
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  7. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    They are One and the Same, gifted the same Holy Spirit in a Different Body. Ask Baha'u'llah and you have asked Krishna.

    Regards Tony
     
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  8. RoaringSilence

    RoaringSilence Active Member

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    tony brother,
    when will you come out from your bahubali land and kindly read a gita .. text= love text=life. please shia lebouf it. bahbali is also right but kindly read the full gita. its a book of freedom not bondage, once you find the secret... read it for this monkey's sake.. im always watching you when u eat non veg..and i will show you that you eat dead bodies. if you want rs the monkey off your back tell me you actually read the texts you love.
     
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  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    According to the Baha'i interpretation. According to the Jewish one, this is a prophecy about how the Jews were not following G-d's commandments and were subsequently exiled with the destruction of the First Temple.

    That's blasphemy according to Jewish Law and it would get your head displaced from your body in other times under certain conditions.



    This verse is going back on verse 2 "I planted it with choice vines." The word for "choice vines" is שורק which has the numerical value of 606, the number of additional commandments that Jews were given over non-Jews (7). The verse is saying that G-d gave us the commandments in order to produce a grapes. Grapes pretty much always understood to be for wine. Grapes can be used to make wine for the the wine libations for the Temple and the metaphor is saying that G-d's intent was that we all become righteous through following the commandments. Instead though, grape berries came out. The word for grape berries here, refers to the minimum growth of grapes that a vine needs in order to be able to take a tithe from it. The metaphor being that only a small portion of the vine actually fulfilled its purpose, while the rest remained mundane.

    The rest of the story is that G-d sends Israel into exile (see the rest of the chapter) for 70 years and then brings us back to build another Temple.

    Pretty much every time we are punished it is by a non-Jewish nation.


    I'm not sure what you were trying to say by quoting this.


    Consider that when G-d want the Jews to accept Moses, He revealed Himself to us as Moses said He would and showed Himself talking to Moses so that we can without a doubt that Moses is a prophet of G-d.

    Do you think that when G-d is willing to go so far to prove without a doubt that someone is His prophet, that we should accept someone who contradicts the prophecy of Moses with anything less than a full national revelation?
     
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  10. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    It would not change what I have accepted and I leave it at that.

    Regards Tony
     
  11. RoaringSilence

    RoaringSilence Active Member

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    .
     
    #7831 RoaringSilence, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  12. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Of course not! Of course not! G-d forbid!

    But it sure does make one wonder about people who believe in a god who keeps changing his mind on what is considered acceptable beliefs about himself...

    Sunday: If you believe that I can be a person or manifest as a person, I'll have my guys cut your head off.
    Monday: Ok, today you can believe I'm a person. But only this once!
    Tuesday: Come on guys! You knew this whole time I manifest in people! I was just pulling your leg. Those guys who guy their heads cut off? Ok, I guess I took it too far.
     
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  13. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    If Jesus the Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are from the One G-d, you could quite easily sèe how your argument would need to be reconsidered.

    I would offer Baha'u'llah shows they do indèd need reconsideration.

    Consider Abdul'baha did indeed talk about the proofs of Christ and Muhammad in a synagogue in America.

    This is that bold talk. ‘Abdu’l-Baha’s talk at San Francisco’s Jewish Temple (Emmanu-El)

    A short explanation Rabbi Martin Meyer Hosts Abdu’l-Baha at Temple Emanu-El

    Regards Tony
     
    #7833 TransmutingSoul, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  14. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I'm calling into question that any of them could have been. Its simply not logical. When G-d started a new religion called Judaism, He proved it beyond any doubt to the people He wanted to follow it. I have not seen any cogent argument - or any argument really, for why anyone should believe in any person who attempts to change that without a similar degree of national revelation.

    That's cute.
     
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  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    My view went right over your head. I've live with your mindset of people for years.

    So let me ask you a series of questions.

    1. Do you think Vinakaya is lying about his experiences with god because he doesn't know the Gita?

    Anyone can develop a claim and many do not.

    2. Are you saying that god does not exist and you would not believe in him if Bahaullah never existed? (His existence is dependent on Bahaullah and not the other way around?)

    Bahaullah's evidence or claims is the same as Jesus and every other abrahamic (abrahamic only) religion that depends on a sacred-book for spiritual experiences.

    Christianity has a boat load of verifiable facts; but you keep look at the bible. It's like being on a bus with a map in your hand and when I tell you, hey, your stop is coming up if you look at the window you can catch it. Then you say, "naw, I see it right here in the map. I trust what's drawn on the map before actually looking at the window to pull the cord when my stop shows up."

    I mean, you can go around in circles if you want. One day may look up. Hopefully you do, but everyone finds truth different. I mean, some people literally go the long way to get to work because they is the only way they know. They trust the GPS before their sense of direction.

    A lot of examples. But if you don't trust yourself, you won't get it.
     
    #7835 Unveiled Artist, Aug 2, 2017
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  16. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul Veteran Member
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    As you rightly should question.

    Baha'u'llah offers for all to take up that search with Justice.

    The Kitab-i-iqan is written as proof to many questions.

    Regards Tony
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    This is your belief. It's not Hinduism and definity not the nature of Krishna. Just Bahaullah with a Krishna name.

    I mean, I know christians would say Krishna is a false god; but, they don't displace Krishna as a Hindu god just say he isn't the god.

    They (and Muslims and Jews) acknowledge that Krishna is not part of their religion and hopefully most respect him as a Hindu god regardless their opinions about him.

    But, wait. Unity/intergration makes things one. You said you don't combine or integrate.

    "One and the same" of two separate and totally distinct people (if you want to believe a Hindu at the very least) and put them under one.

    Do you even care who Krishna actually is to the people and religion that defines him?

    Do you even care about these revealed religions factual point of view of their own religious figures?

    Not if you agree. Do you care?
     
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  18. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
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    Acceptable to who? To the Jews?

    When we consider that the days of the weeks represent periods of history hundreds to thousands of years apart, why wouldn't God change His guidance to humanity according to the exigencies of the time?
     
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  19. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    The focus of all the Baha'i Teachings is on humanity. How we can create a better world. We now live in a multicultural world where all the Faiths, nations and races regularly interact and this presents new challenges and obstacles such as prejudice to contend with.

    The Baha'i Teachings address these problems through the Teachings of Baha'u'llah. Whereas before it was said to love your country or race, today it is taught to love all humanity. If we do not accept all humanity as our brothers and sisters then we will not be able to get along with each other and things like war and poverty will continue and increase.

    By loving humanity that doesn't exclude love of tribe, family, nationality, race or religion because love for all humanity includes all these loyalties but the wider loyalty of humanity Baha'u'llah says should come first.

    So it's the responsibility of all national and peoples to end wars and poverty and ensure that all have food, clothing, shelter and medicine as well as work and education. This is what it means to put humanity above all else. The $trillions spent on machines for war can be spent on education, medicine and employment instead. But we must all rise above our own agendas and put humanity first.

    This is what the Baha'is are trying to do but without firm commitment that humanity comes first these things are unachievable because by one race, religion or nation trying to dominate has only brought about war and mistrust and suspicion and so because there is no trust we must spend and waste money on destroying rather than investing in life.

    So to raise the consciousness of humanity above loyalty to their own agendas and put humanity first is the challenge of this day and age.

    We must have something like a world federation which would evenly distribute the world's resources so none go without and a world tribunal to force all disputes to a court and off the battlefield.

    If the world is united this can be achieved and we have the physical,means just not the willpower or spiritual level to be united. But we just keep trying knowing that just as the American Civil war resulted in the United States of America, so too will this conflicting world one day be the United Federation of humanity.
     
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  20. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    LH, this has not been my observation. Maybe in real life, I've never seen it in real life, but certainly not on this thread. On this thread it's been the infallibility of Baha'u'llah and the superiority of the Baha'i' faith as compared to all other faiths. It has been insulting to humanity, to all the non-Baha'i' folk.

    If it was about humanity, the people here would be out helping humanity, not arguing incessantly about how we're better than everyone else.
     
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